Old longrifle identification

[JamesT]

So are you saying it would be better left in 2 pieces held together with kite string?Starting to sense some sarcasm in your replys.

Yes it would be unless it was restored by someone who knew what they are doing. But get some Gorrilla Glue and have at it though since its your money. Dont want to have it in 2 pieces now. That would ruin the value.
James

 

[Brazos John]

That would ruin the value.

I bet the new owner would appreciate some actual advice.
You've posted lots of other comments that were intelligent and useful.
Not so much, here tonight.
Just the way I'm seeing these comments. Maybe I'm misinterpreting....

 

[JamesT]

Uh.

I bet the new owner would appreciate some actual advice.
You've posted lots of other comments that were intelligent and useful.
Not so much, here tonight.
Just the way I'm seeing these comments. Maybe I'm misinterpreting....

Well. I gave advice and it was not received with sound judgement. I am certainly not an authority on this rifle nor am I the owner. So the OP may do what he wishes with the ole rifle he just picked up since he knows all about it now and its in two pieces. Its his money and property what can I say? None of my business really.
James

 

[Mulebrain]

It would be nice to keep it as is, and make a copy of it. If only that ole girl could talk

I would try and work on getting the trigger guard replaced based on whats left of the original parts.

I would just wax it up with Johnson's paste wax, and leave it alone as far as the rest.

Fascinating piece of history

 

[deerstalkert]

A or B?

 

[duca]

Lol

 

[French Colonial]

IF...and a very big IF!
This rifle is restored by someone who knows what they are doing it will be much improved in appearance and value (I lost my best friend less than a month ago who could have done this).

If it is messed with by someone who does not know what they are doing it will be irreparably harmed.

I would be looking for someone to restore it but someone with the necessary skills will also not be cheap.

 

[Robby]

Well, I hope there is some way to put the gun whole again without loosing the personality it has earned. Somehow, that cord binding must be kept, classic!!!!
Robby

 

[Lfpdlt]

Ok I seem to have ruffled some feathers over the future of this rifle. I will be keeping the rifle for my own personal enjoyment, to admire for many years to come, and daydream about the stories it could tell, which unfortunately it cannot. There is no known history of this piece other than who made it, where, and approximately when. I have no idea when and how the damage was incurred, and can only speculate. Monetary value is the least important part of this rifle to me as it is not for sale. I was not looking for this rifle. It found me, for the whopping asking price of $25 (and I gladly paid double the asking price). More experienced people here than me seem to feel it is worthy of the services of a professional restorer and should not be monkeyed with by an amateur, which I can respect. My vision for this rifle is to have it stabilized and mostly complete. I have no plans to have it turned into a shooter or made to look like new. I love the character of the rifle and want to keep it with it’s well earned scars. I just want to stop the further deterioration of this old beauty. So, in your more experienced opinions than mine, what would you estimate as possible cost have this work done, and who are some experts you would recommend?

 

[JamesT]

I heard a rumor that the Ferree rifle recently discovered and sold at auction (Broken in two at the wrist) will be about a 5 or 6k restoration.

 

[brazosland]

Op…your rifle wasn’t used at the Alamo. Dont do anything drastic and we can all be grateful it’s found a loving caring home.

If anyone presumed to preach to you about what you should do…have them include a check to cover expenses.

 

[excess650]

I heard a rumor that the Ferree rifle recently discovered and sold at auction (Broken in two at the wrist) will be about a 5 or 6k restoration.

That Ferree brought $12K and if the restoration is $5-6K, the total is just a fraction of its value because its an early rifle.

Regarding the J Roop, my first reaction at the photos was "Upper Susquehanna" and the rifle combined with the name and family history adds value to collectors. It needs restoration, but it needs to be done correctly for real value.

 

[Notchy Bob]

That is an interesting rifle. I've heard of Roop, but don't know much about him. I believe a couple of the builders who frequent the ALR Forum have produced some copies of Roop rifles, so his work is known and respected by at least a few.

It sounds to me as if the subject rifle in this thread found itself a good home.

I haven't seen any comments on the powder horn that came with it (re photos 8, 9, and 10 in post #2). That's a nice, old, workingman's horn. I like it a lot. I've seen photos of a lot of 19th century horns with a big, flat-head wood screw in the base for a strap button, like that one has. I think it was common practice. And yet, the maker did a careful job carving the tip. It's a nice horn.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Lfpdlt]

That is an interesting rifle. I've heard of Roop, but don't know much about him. I believe a couple of the builders who frequent the ALR Forum have produced some copies of Roop rifles, so his work is known and respected by at least a few.

It sounds to me as if the subject rifle in this thread found itself a good home.

I haven't seen any comments on the powder horn that came with it (re photos 8, 9, and 10 in post #2). That's a nice, old, workingman's horn. I like it a lot. I've seen photos of a lot of 19th century horns with a big, flat-head wood screw in the base for a strap button, like that one has. I think it was common practice. And yet, the maker did a careful job carving the tip. It's a nice horn.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Thank you, sir.

 

[Kitkatsiam]

As an FYI, I own a Roop nearly identical to yours minus the fish inlays. You are spot on as it contains multiple Roop characteristics. I would like to see better pictures of the lock. Roop purchased locks but also made many of his own usually marked J. Roop just like the barrel.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Thank you for your opinion on restoration, and I see what you are saying. If there was a known history of how and when the stock and trigger guard were broken and it was part of the gun’s story I would leave it as is. Unfortunately right now it is in most people’s eyes just a broken old gun which is why it sat in a closet for years neglected and forgotten, until it came time to clean out some old junk. I just want to stabilize it and repair it enough so that it will be appreciated for many years to come. If I had done nothing to it, I would not even know who made it.

Far too many old originals have been permanently screwed up by bubba restorations done with good intentions. You may find an proper trigger guard because most were imported as were the locks. Few gunsmiths of that time period cast their own brass or made their own locks. Make no attempt to shine the brass or (horror) refinish the stock. You may well find some tips for NON damaging work you can do over at the American Long rifle forum. The last original I purchased was a butchered smooth rifle made near Philadelphia between 1809 and 1817 3/4 of the forestock was missing, the wrist was badly cracked, etc. I donated it to a museum that promised to have an experienced pro work on the gun, or nobody. The guy that did the work passed away back in the 1990's. He was able to find curly maple that matched , even in age and pieced a forestock onto the gun that was impossible to tell. From other old junk guns, he found proper ram rod ferrules that matched known examples of the gun smith's work. I saw the gun when he was finished and a relic that I paid $40 for, looked like the museum piece it was. The museum was taken over by another institution and I understand the gun is now on display in Wilmington DE. Your gun is in far far better shape than that old POS I bought 50 yrs ago. I have seen guns in that condition bring over $4,000 because it was known who made the gun. guns that have been adulterated by addition of modern or improper parts have lost significant value in the eyes of collectors. You have a rare piece of history. It would be a shame to detract from it's historical value..

 

[AZshot]

That's a nice rescue from the trash bin. I think you know this and were planning to do so, but you can do things that are reversible. Like removing the string. I'm sorry you were trolled by someone who gave their opinion, and when you politely explained yours, they ratcheted up their questions in a sarcastic way, then began adding belittling judgements of YOU, not the rifle nor the plan to clean it up.

What I can suggest is talk to some experts and get their advice. Maybe go to the ALR forum, see what steps can be done that are reversible, and what steps should not be done. For example, cleaning the stock may remove traces of original finish, which has some historical value to scholars. So that wouldn't be reversible. Removing the string which was not put on during the period is not a problem. Gluing with hide glue any cracks to stabilize and reduce wood being lost is OK in my mind too. Talk to someone who will help you, give advice, without judging you for your thoughts.

 

[AZshot]

I've set this member to ignore. He can now pick other people to call morons and liberals. By the way, I'm a systems engineer with 3 college degrees and a Navy vet who did combat, and a very Conservative American. Let me explain what I saw. He is a bully, an angry person, and asked leading questions to get a reply that he could then attack, vaguely hiding behind snarky sarcasm.

 

[Eterry]

If you can not play nice...I can see to it that you can't play here at all.

That includes EVERYONE.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

A or B?

NEVER compare old cars to old guns. Apples and oranges.