Old pistol safe to shoot?

[fredrader]

Ok,I posted a question about this pistol in the research section before I had pics and didn't get any info..I bought this pistol and it has an oval with E over an LG and a star on the bottom and it has G.NOACK in BERLIN in gold on the top of the brl..It looks like a Damascus brl and has a bunch of engraving on it..If anyone could tell me anything about it I would appreciate it..
Now does it look safe to shoot? The brl looks great with deep rifling and the nipple even came out without breaking..The bore measures rite at .50cal maybe just under..It looks kinda like a dueling pistol or maybe a target pistol since the rear sight adjusts up and down like no other sight I have ever seen..(See more pics here http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/245790/post/846665/hl//fromsearch/1/ )
Thanks in advance..

 

[napolean]

Hey Fred, Thats an interesting piece. I believe thats a Leige, Belgium Proofmark. Is there some adjustment also on the Trigger? Is it a single set? Really the gun looks to be in shootable condition but it's an opinion based on photos. Since the barrel looks to be removable, plug the nipple and put some lamp oil or similar in it, stand it up overnight and see if there is any leakage around the breech or snail. If that area seems sound, I would shoot it w/very light loads of 3f BP & RPB's ( like 15 to 20 gr).
I do have a Liege Bulldog revolver made in the 1880's that I do load for and shoot. If an old one is sound and there is little collector interest, then the value is as a shooter.
Jon

 

[fredrader]

The Belgian proof mark is just like the one on mine and in the photo with the exception being that the Belgian mark has a crown on top of the oval and the one on mine is like the one in the pic.Mine does not have the crown on top so it must be British (England)or so the list of proof marks say it is anyhow .I have no Idea what it is I just hope someone here knows and can fill me in..

The trigger adjustment I don't know what it does,I turned it all the way in and way out and I couldn't tell any difference..

I will try the oil though and see if it leaks anywhere..It will be tough to seal off the nipple I bet..
The guy I bought it from said his grandpa had just died (90yrs) and they found the pistol in his stuff and they sold it to me..
I wouldn't have sold it if it was me but everyone is different I guess..
Here is a link to the proof marks I am referring too.. https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf

 

[napolean]

Ya got my curiousity goin. Did you try pressing forward on the trigger to see if it sets. Many old duelers were single set. However, with the adjustabe sights I would judge this to be a target gun. Damascus was a sound and popular method of barrel construction in the age of BP even into the early BP cartridge era. Even after lookin at that proofmark page I still say thats a Leige Arsenal Proofed Belgium made barrel. Probably very good quality.
Jon

 

[fredrader]

I tried pushing forward on the trigger and it didn't set..I don't know what it does..
It may be like you say Belgian without the crown but I have no clue..

 

[napolean]

It's a good lookin gun where ever the barrel was proofed. I like the lines, the checkering, and the engraving. The damascus doesnt appear pitted as many do because of the age on the forge welds.
LET US KNOW when ya shoot her.
Jon

 

[Zonie]

fredrader
My similar pistol does have the Damascus barrel and the interior of it has several serious defects in it.

About 1 1/2 inches down the bore there is a pit that is large enough to hang up a bent wire in it.
It actually seems that a small (3/32?) piece of the twisted metal the barrel is made from is gone.

Being somewhat stupid I suppose I did fire the pistol anyway with about 15 grains of powder under a lightly patched .490 roundball. (Its a .50 caliber pistol).
I only did this once and there were no problems but I figured that after its (roughly) 150th birthday it deserved to make smoke one last time.

If the barrel on your pistol doesn't have any noticable flaws in it I think it would be safe to shoot with real light loads like I used.
After all, when these pistols were made a 15-20 grain load was quite sufficient to do what the pistol was designed to do.

 

[RADeO]

Beautiful pistol! It reminds me of a Siber pistol, except for the back-action lock and a few other details.

Have it examined by a competent gunsmith who is knowledgeable about black powder pistols to find out if it is safe to shoot. Be sure to let us know how things turn out.

Congratulations on your acquisition. :thumbsup:

 

[fredrader]

The brl looks great all the way down..I may try to shoot it like you say with a lite load sometime..I think mine has Silver trigger guard,butt cap and maybe even the lock.It is cool and feels great in my hand and I bet it would shoot great but I am just concerned about the Damascus Brl giving way or something. I always wanted an original 1800's pistol and rifle so I guess I need a rifle now.. :thumbsup:

 

[napolean]

Yea ebiggs, the old Bulldog revolver I have has an identical proofmark to yours and also inspection marks that are listed as being Liege arsenal. Have you checked any gun auction sites for that name? Could find what some have sold for and maybe get an approximate value.
Most gunsmiths will tell you not to shoot it. A liability thing. Like someone else said, I.d probably have to get it dirty once, Whether you decide to or not, It will look great on the rack. And it's YOURS.
Jon

 

[napolean]

OK Zonie, now ya did it. You said similar, Does it have a makers name and a proof? I haven't seen a trigger with a screw like the one ebiggs has. Have you? I have seen adjustment screws for overtravel on more modern stuff, and adjustment screws on single set triggers, but not like that, they are behind the trigger and go through the trigger plate.
Jon

 

[goon]

fredrader
My similar pistol does have the Damascus barrel and the interior of it has several serious defects in it.

About 1 1/2 inches down the bore there is a pit that is large enough to hang up a bent wire in it.
It actually seems that a small (3/32?) piece of the twisted metal the barrel is made from is gone.

Being somewhat stupid I suppose I did fire the pistol anyway with about 15 grains of powder under a lightly patched .490 roundball. (Its a .50 caliber pistol).
I only did this once and there were no problems but I figured that after its (roughly) 150th birthday it deserved to make smoke one last time.

If the barrel on your pistol doesn't have any noticable flaws in it I think it would be safe to shoot with real light loads like I used.
After all, when these pistols were made a 15-20 grain load was quite sufficient to do what the pistol was designed to do.

I understand the logic of keeping an antique like that in tact from a historical standpoint, but would it be possible to bore your barrel out to say .52 and maybe make it a shootable smoothbore?
Just curious...
My dad has an old flintlock kit rifle from the 70's with a rusted barrel that I might try something like this with - but I get that your gun definitely has more value than that!

 

[fredrader]

Yes you can bore it out and bake it a smoothbore and shoot it no problem..Just make the bore streight and don't make the brl too thin.. They do it all the time but I would have someone do it that knows what they are doing do it..

 

[renovato]

Just out of safety, you might have the barrel magnafluxed before firing it. Sometimes damascus can get corrosion going in between the layers where it can't be seen. A lot of welding shops are set up to magnaflux, or would know where you could get it done. Cheap insurance to keep from damaging a gorgeous gun and maybe hurting yourself in the process.

 

[TFoley]

Sir - I'm not quite sure why you have posted these questions again, but my answers will be the same as they were on the other post.

Your pistol barrel WAS made in Liege between about 1846 and 1856.

The proofmark on YOUR pistol is EXACTLY the Liege proofmarks.

It is NOT British in any way.

Are my answers not what you want to hear?

tac

 

[fredrader]

I appreciate the info for sure,I was asking here if I should shoot the pistol or not since it has the damascus brl.. The consensus is that I really shouldn't shoot it till I have it checked out..I guess I will just keep it hanging on the wall and not shoot it..Thanks again for the info you have provided..It is exactly what I wanted to hear..

 

[silverfox]

Fredrader have you been in my gun safe? Saw the pictures and had to go look for sure. Mine is a 30cal. and it looks identical except for a couple things due to size. Now comes the differences. (1) barrel looks to be steel and there are no marking at all on the barrel except the muzzle is recessed about 1/8" like a target barrel. The tang is smaller due to size and has the same ajustable sight as yours. Grips are checkered in same pattern. Hammer looks the same. I have a capbox in the stockbutt. The trigger is a single set with the screw behind the trigger vertical.The wedge is captured to prevent loss.
The pistols side by side would look identical except mine would be a little smaller.
I got mine through my father who got it from a cousins estate in Iowa in the early 1950's.
It shoots and is a tack driver but now mostly just gets admired.
The only marks on the gun are on the lock ( R. Schaller a Fribourg ) in script.
No value this is family so have know idea. Nice looking pistols and glad to see one in pictures.
Fox :hatsoff:

 

[fredrader]

Nice,This one has the captured wedge also..I think mine will just be admired instead of shooting it too..I bet it would shoot good though back in the day..

 

[CaptainKirk]

Nice score. On the barrel...everything I have ever read that was written about firearms with Damascus twist barrels reads the same; "DON'T SHOOT them! Corrosion can and does set up among the welds, and the steels used back then weren't of the quality of today's steels. Why risk injury and/or destruction of a fine piece? Hang it, put it in a glass case or whatever, and admire it! Buy a Lyman Plains Pistol and shoot the barrel off it, if you have a hankerin' for single shot percussions! Just my opinion....

 

[MSW]

fredrader, i concur with the consensus- don't shoot it; it's not worth the risk.

put her under glass.

just one guy's free advice, and doubtless worth what you paid.