Old Rifle Has Arrived, And I Have Questions?? Pics!

[Roy]

My first thoughts was that it might slide forward too.

 

[Mulebrain]

:hmm: Are you sure it's not a rifle o recent manufacture made to look old? I say this because the patina on the barrel looks like someone started the browning process and then stopped it to make it look old. And then yur description of the bore too good to be true for an 1850's era gun and the cavity for the patch box looks a lot like router work? Not trying to be a wise guy just reacting to pictures. :v

Well,

If someone started a brown process, it must have been done while they were asleep! I see no visual attempt at browning. The patch box inlet, is clearly done with chisels, and you can see the chisel marks. Remember there was old tallow in that cavity, which really preserved the area. Great bores can be found on old guns! Especially if the owner took pride! The backside of the lock, and lock mortise are genuine.

Some guns were really taken car of well, and others were clearly not!

 

[Mulebrain]

My first thoughts was that it might slide forward too.

Well, I know it aint sliding back :grin: I will give it a try!

 

[Mulebrain]

Well,

This barrel is not budging, and I will not try to pry it. I think the x ray is the way to go!

I wanted to provide some more closeup shots for review. I noticed that the patchbox inlet has evidence of a brace and auger bit being used.

The lock is clearly marked RIDDLE

 

[Otter]

Mule Brain,

First - nice find . . . nice looking rifle.

I found a custom repro earlier this year that looks very similar in style. The barrel is attached to the stock by a hidden pin (in about the location where one would expect a barrel wedge key to be), removing the two tang screws and moving the barrel towards the muzzle. I would expect you would want to remove the lock and lock bolt(s), too. I don't have to because the builder notched the web of the breech plug so he didn't have to remove the lock. Yours, as someone else pointed out, has not been removed for a loooooong time, so may require some "gentle force" - maybe a wood block and a hammer to break a frozen (rusted) pin/underlug connection. As long as you don't take full swings and use the tap-tap-tap method, you shouldn't damage anything. I will disassemble mine and try to get some pics posted today, but I ain't making any promises. Good luck.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

I can't imagine why anyone would think that it is a rifle of recent manufacture, it is undoubtedly an old rifle, my guess would be that it dates anywhere from 1845 - 1880.

Muley, try whacking the barrel with a plastic, non-marring hammer, it could be stuck with accumulated dirt. If so, that will no allow the barrel to move forward IF that is how it is removed. Also, and I'm sure you did it, be sure to remove the lock before trying.

 

[Otter]

Got the pics - hope they are clear enough to show what MAY be how your barrel is attached to your stock.

full length

front pin

breech area

 

[pichou]

I can't imagine why anyone would think that it is a rifle of recent manufacture, it is undoubtedly an old rifle, my guess would be that it dates anywhere from 1845 - 1880.

Well this is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth...

At best it is a old restock. Not a shop or factory made gun.

At worst it is a gun made up of parts, say about 1960.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not rippin' on gun or owner. I just have a bad habit of looking with a academic eye. An eye for the truth. :surrender:

My folks are antiquers, so I was raised with a eye for fakes and cobbled together furniture. But fakes are often cheaper than repros, and cobbled pieces are original, they just have a interesting history :grin:

It is a nice gun, and more to the point, I have no idea how to get that barrel off. :redface:

:v

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Giving the barrel a whack or two sounds like another good idea. I would hold the rifle by the barrel and give it some taps and maybe some stronger whacks. Let the barrel vibrate in the stock, with the stock not supported, as opposed to holding the rifle by the stock and hitting the barrel. That way there would be less chance of damaging the stock. You might be able to feel and hear through the vibrations of the barrel where it is connected to the stock.
You might ask your doctor if you could have the rifle x-rayed. If you live near a university, see if they have a bomb squad with a portable x-ray, they might be able to help with that. The university might have an x-ray they use for archeology and historical research. Call a museum to see if they can steer you to someone who might be willing and interested in helping you figure the puzzle out.
You might need to do some traveling, but it seems like it would be a great rainy day project :hmm:

 

[Mulebrain]

Otter!

Thanks for all the info!

I will get it x rayed first. I am just really afraid of doing any damage to the stock.

I really don't need to remove the barrel, I am just searching for more possible information from the barrel or channel.

I understand the concept of the barrel wedge hook, but do not understand how this one is done. There is no visible retaining pin!

I will let you know!!

I do work for a couple of dentists, and they might be able to help!

MB

 

[Emet Huntsman]

I may be mistaken, but teh closeups of the nosepiece appear to show a slight dimple about halfway down. might this be a pin that is so worn it looks like one with the nosepiece? :2

 

[Mulebrain]

Nope! That is only a ding in the nosecap.

 

[flashpanner]

maybe your dentist could use his x-ray machine that he uses for oral work. My dentist helped me out when I broke my finger tip. I'd go for the idea that there is a cross pin in the muzzle cap and a tapered finger lug on the barrel.

 

[bajabuc]

I noticed that nosecap has a dimple on both sides.

 

:grin: That's the impression I got from the original set of pictures. I it apears to be a more recent restock. I also agree that it is a nice rifle that should be enjoyable to shoot. :v

 

[44-henry]

I see nothing about that rifle that would suggest it is a restock, at least not one performed in the last 100 years. It looks like thousands of other halfstock rifles from the mid 1800's and the quality places it in the middle of the pack.

 

[Mulebrain]

I see nothing about that rifle that would suggest it is a restock, at least not one performed in the last 100 years. It looks like thousands of other halfstock rifles from the mid 1800's and the quality places it in the middle of the pack.

I must agree!

I have seen many originals, and condition really varies. Many think if a gun isn't nasty and beat up it's a restock! This rifle has surely been taken care of over the years, and it shows!

 

[Rancocas]

I see nothing about that rifle that would suggest it is a restock, at least not one performed in the last 100 years. It looks like thousands of other halfstock rifles from the mid 1800's and the quality places it in the middle of the pack.

I must agree!

I have seen many originals, and condition really varies. Many think if a gun isn't nasty and beat up it's a restock! This rifle has surely been taken care of over the years, and it shows!

These "Ohio rifles" came into being in the 1840s - 1870's when large game in the mid-west was rare. These were meant for hunting small game such as rabbits and squirrels, and for gentlemanly plinking and informal shooting matches. While many saw hard use in the hands of rustic youths, many others were cherished and well-kept by gentleman farmers, businessmen, country doctors, and the like. I believe that little Annie Oakley first learned to shoot with just such a small rifle.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The small cracks in the side piece panel and the well worn entry hole for the ramrod suggest a well used original rather than a restock. I've seen many rifles of this type over the years and if they've had some care, this is how they look. I think this is a nice old rifle and the real thing. A little work ought to make it shootable too. :thumbsup:

 

[Mulebrain]

It really is ready to roll right now, I just need to work on the sear and tumbler some. There is no half **** on this rifle, and the cocked hammer aint holding to well.