One shooter so many problems!

[tannerbollum]

Just finished my .45 Lancaster. I started to shoot it and holy smokes.(no pun intended) It was so much fun but I ran into so many problems! It seemed like the barrel needed to be wiped after almost each shot? lest fouling would stick the ball half way down the barrel: first problem. After that was unlodged I wiped the bore with solvent but feared the damp barrel would caused misfires? so I tried to send a dry patch down the barrel which was clearly mistake as that became stuck. So no dry patch use or thinner patches? Also the pan became covered with fouling which I took the time to wipe off, necessary? Finally, Im using a white lighting touch holed liner and it seemed like my pick was far too large to fit in there, how far does it need to go in to be effective? I apologized for the long post and all the questions thank you so much in advance.

 

[EC121]

Fouling in the pan is normal. I've even had water in the pan on damp days. Not a big deal. Put a rag in your pocket and wipe the flint, frizzen each shot. Use spit. My opinion(everybody has one) is that the clean flint sparks better. Wipe the pan when it looks really grungy or draws moisture. Also read the comments about the WL liners in another post.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Pan can stay cruddy. Frizzen should be wiped occasionally with a dry patch or piece of material.

Various lubes can get you different results. My Moose Snot lets me shoot five times and then a single spit damp patch to cut some of the build-up. At that time I also wipe out the pan - especially on humid days when the fouling is holding moisture. If things are going well I tend not to pick the vent.

Pushing the crud down the bore with a sopping wet patch can be counterproductive. You build up a mass at the breech and around the inside of the vent.

Here is an image of a flintlock with 1/16" vent fired 30 times with only reloading and repriming - no clean up at all; bore, pan, or frizzen. But it is a smoothbore so the bore was less of an issue. I use waxed wads.

As you learned - don't put a dry patch down a fouled bore. They stick tight. But a wipe patch only needs be damp. Not sopping wet.

 

[rushlake1]

without knowing your powder-ball patch load I'll give some general advise.

1. the white lighting liner is coned on the inside..
this allows your rifle powder to fill this void..another words the powder should be able to be seen through the touch hole liner when ball is seated.
no reason to take a pick and push it back.
Take the finest grained powder you have and prime the pan till the powder is up to the bottom of the touch hole. I prime with Swiss Null-b.
2. Your patch lube is failing....
with a wet patch lube and the correct patch ball combo(Think compressed patch sealing bore) there will be no need to wipe between shots. the patched ball will clean the fowling with each new load.
The fowling will be compressed on top of the powder and then shot out.
I use a short starter...
as as example..I shot 55 times this am with a 32 cal flint lock.with a good fitting patch ball combo without swabbing once....even with the smaller bore this can be done.
3. wipe pan,frizzen face,bottom , flint after each shot..Just do it!.
I'm starting to get a handle on this rifle...
the accurate powder load comes on quick....like within 3 to 5 grains making a big difference.
My goal 50 yard head shots on squirrels..Im almost there.
Put all your other guns away and work up a load ..Falls coming fast.

 

[tannerbollum]

Wow! great replies and so fast! nice pictures 22 that's a fantastic group! Is it typical that a "cold bore" shot will be off from the rest of the group? So what it seems is that typically I won't need to wipe between shots or pick the touch hole. What I do need to be looking at is my patch lube! It completely slipped my mind. I'm using very cheap patches that are "pre-lubed" from bi-mart. So an order to tow is necessary? Recommendations on patch material/lube. I'm currently shooting .440 balls now if it makes a difference. Thank you all for your kind help.

 

[Zonie]

I'll take a stab at this but remember, the answers are just my opinion.

Wow! great replies and so fast! nice pictures 22 that's a fantastic group! Is it typical that a "cold bore" shot will be off from the rest of the group?

It's fairly common. It is more common on guns that have had their barrels removed from the stock for cleaning. The first shot seems to reseat the barrel.

So what it seems is that typically I won't need to wipe between shots or pick the touch hole.

In the desert area I live in I ufually have to wipe the bore every 5-7 shots when shooting real black powder.
I save picking the vent for those occasions where I get a flash in the pan. When that happens, picking the vent can expose some fresh powder grains to the next pan flash.

What I do need to be looking at is my patch lube!

There's a world of opinions on patch lubes. I prefer the watery ones like Stumpkillers Moose Juice. A damp (not dripping) patch does a better job of wiping the fouling off of the bore walls while the patched ball is being rammed. The "dry lubes" some like usually does a poor job of wiping the bore.
Some folks use Olive Oil or a vegetable cooking oil. It usually works pretty good.
A grease like Bore Butter does a so-so job. The important thing to remember is the patches must have some sort of lube or they will get stuck.

It completely slipped my mind. I'm using very cheap patches that are "pre-lubed" from bi-mart.

IMO, the pre-lubed patches are ok if they are new. If they are old the material will be broken down and weakened resulting in blown patches and poor accuracy.

Your patch material must be thicker than the depth of the rifling in the bore. Usually a .015-.018 thick patch works nicely even with hot powder loads. The material must be a tight weave cotton material. Pillow ticking (usually blue/white stripe or red/white stripe) works very well.

So an order to tow is necessary?

Wal-mart and sewing stores usually have the thicker patch material.

I'm currently shooting .440 balls now if it makes a difference.

.440 or .445 diameter balls are perfect for your .45 cal rifle.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Just finished my .45 Lancaster. I started to shoot it and holy smokes.(no pun intended) It was so much fun but I ran into so many problems! It seemed like the barrel needed to be wiped after almost each shot? lest fouling would stick the ball half way down the barrel: first problem. After that was unlodged I wiped the bore with solvent but feared the damp barrel would caused misfires? so I tried to send a dry patch down the barrel which was clearly mistake as that became stuck. So no dry patch use or thinner patches? Also the pan became covered with fouling which I took the time to wipe off, necessary? Finally, Im using a white lighting touch holed liner and it seemed like my pick was far too large to fit in there, how far does it need to go in to be effective? I apologized for the long post and all the questions thank you so much in advance.

You don't really have a lot of problems, just areas of concern that can be easily addressed by solutions offered by the others.

Black powder fouling is simply a product of shooting a black powder gun. The need for wiping after each shot is dependent on many factors. You haven't provided us with a location as local humidity can affect fouling build up. After wiping the bore with a damp patch your dry patch should not be getting stuck. Measure your bore and your jag. You want a cleaning patch combination that goes down fairly loose and bunches up to drag the fouling out on the way up. I like to use diaper flannel for cleaning patches. You can get that at the fabric store when you get the pillow ticking for shooting patches. When you buy patch material from a fabric store, wash it to remove the sizing from the fabric. This will make the patch easier to use for loading and will take the lubrication better.

While not really necessary, I like to use the dry patch to wipe the face of the frizzen, the pan and flint after each shot. This can also depend on relative humidity where you live. On damp days it seems as if the fouling draws a lot of water from the air and you have puddles of sludge in your pan.

The White Lightning liner is great for fast ignition. As shipped, the liner will have a very tiny (less than 1/16") touch hole. Your vent pick should be able to go all the way through the vent to the far side of the barrel. Enlarge the touch hole to at least 1/16" diameter. Look at other posts for discussions on touch hole diameter. I recommend getting the number drills between 1/16" and 5/64" so you can work to the optimum touch hole diameter. You really don't want a touch hole so large that you self prime. At 5/64" you are getting close to a touch hole that will allow 3fg powder to pass through.

I don't think you have many problems at all. You just have to develop good shooting procedures for your rifle.

 

[nchawkeye]

One point I don't believe has been mentioned is the jag you are using, most fit the bore too tight...Turn it down, file it down, whatever it takes...

If a jag/cleaning patch is too tight, it pushes the fouling down, it should pass by most and pull it out...

As mentioned most use cleaning patches that are too wet as well...For sighting in, wipes work pretty well, tear off a piece, double it up and use it for cleaning...

 

[Rifleman1776]

The best practice is to swab the bore with a damp patch after every shot. BP is dirty stuff the crudding you see is normal. The frizzen face should be kept clean. I just use my wet thumb to wipe it. After the first shot that tastes real good.

 

[William O.]

My suggestion is to get some cotton flannel for your cleaning patches and lightly dampen them with 91% rubbing alcohol. When stabbing the bore between shots just run it down and up, then discard. The alcohol naturally contains a small amount of water and this mixture removes most of the fouling. Since alcohol has a much lower boiling point than water it evaporates quickly, lessening the chance of affecting a fresh powder charge.
I get my flannel and mattress ticking at the local fabric store. The mattress ticking is all cotton and measures about .018 compresses and makes a great round ball patch. I learned how to cut the patches the muzzle with makes loading really easy. I've also had good luck and excellent accuracy lubing my patches with olive oil, also something you want to go easy on. I am going to try dry lubing my patches though. That's another topic entirely.

 

[MSW]

Wow,22- I'd be happy with a group double that size ... some fine shooting there! :hatsoff:

you might want to check out Dutch Schoultz' method, here:
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

he has a very comprehensive method and, if followed, your groups will shrink.

Make good smoke!

 

[frogwalking]

The White lightnin touch hole liner, as manufactured, has a really small flash hole. I have used them on multiple rifles, and find that if I drill it out to 1/16 inch, I get more reliable ignition, with no loss of accuracy. If I am shooting off the bench, I use fine priming powder. If I am wandering through the woods, I use whatever I am loading. 2F priming actually lights every time with a good lock. (Although a little slower to fire) Many folks, me included, carry a small brush dangling from the powder horn or pouch strap to whisk the fouling out of the pan and off the frizzen. Shoot plenty off the bench with all your kit before you go walking, as you will have the needed tools to pull a stuck ball or retrieve a lost patch. I order all the necessary stuff for each new gun from TOW before heading to the range.

 

[vulture]

Perhaps I am missing something here! Back when I started into muzzleloading I joined a local club and the members told me the first shoot I went to that they would put a dry patch in their mouth, soak it up good, then load with it. The amount of powder that was effected by the wet or damp patch, it wasn't dripping wet, was neglagable, and each time you loaded you wiped the bore fouling down the bore along with the patched ball. I have never been a great shot, but some of those folks were and they would get great accrucy shooting this way. I read and hear folks talk about using one product or another to lube the patch with and wonder why bother when the good Lord gave you all the lube you need right there in your mouth, now this does not work if I am hunting, then I use a lube that will not compromise the powder load during an all day hunt. None of us at those shoots ever wiped the bore of our rifles between shots, or every "so many" shots, and we would shoot all day long, an avarage of 15-20 targets, usually requiring a minimum of three shots per target, you can do the math on that one. During one of these shoots I never had a ball get stuck going down the bore, nor did I see anyone else have a problem. Some times it would get a bit difficult to get the ball loaded in which case my next load would be with a patch that was some what wetter, problem solved. I have never loaded any other way since, when shooting for fun, shot after shot. Maybe I have been doing it wrong all these years, but as someone mentioned in a previous post, if it aint broke don't fix it, and I aint gunna.

 

[MJMarkey]

I usually use spit for patch lube when at the range. I almost never swab the bore unless the loading gets tough. Usually only after a long pause, such as after a lunch break.

Oil or greased patches are great for loading for hunting where you usually load once. But for the range where you are repeatedly loading and firing grease and oil will not remove fouling. So it only builds up.

So my advice is at the range "spit patches" and wipe the frizzen and flint. :thumbsup:

 

[Leatherbark]

A downfall to spit patch and I used to spit patch all the time is that when you gag for several hours trying to "Honk" up that thread out of the back of your throat makes a squirt of moosemilk on the patch mighty appealing.

Bob

 

[dikman]

Amongst the many things that I've learned (so far, and there's still much more to learn!) is that all rifles (barrels) are different in what system/method they need to shoot well. There's a lot of trial and error involved in this game!

I have to swab between shots, otherwise the ball/patch simply does not want to go all the way down without a lot of force. If swabbing do not go all the way down to the breech face, stop short of it, otherwise you end up pushing a lot of crud down there. And a slightly damp patch is all that's needed - I use a diluted soluble cutting oil mix.

What you are finding is not abnormal. There are lots of possible answers to your problems, all of which will be on this forum somewhere. Do lots of reading, this place is an invaluable resource and above all don't be afraid to experiment with load/patch/patch lube combinations to find what works for you.

It's all part of the fun.

 

[EC121]

Lately I have been trying Track's mink oil lube. So far I can shoot a loading block of prelubed patches(10 shots)without wiping and no ring forms. It hot in Alabama so I usually quit and go in the house after 10 offhand rounds. I do this with a .30 and a .40. Both behave the same and clean up easily with Ballistol and water. The lube has a little musk smell but it doesn't linger on your hands. I've even tried Vaseline Intensive Care hand lotion with lanolin. Works OK for range shooting but dries out too quick to carry in the woods. Also works for a hand cleaner after you are done.

 

[Pete G]

A downfall to spit patch and I used to spit patch all the time is that when you gag for several hours trying to "Honk" up that thread out of the back of your throat makes a squirt of moosemilk on the patch mighty appealing.

Bob

A little squirt of moosemilk in the back of your throat will bring that thread right up.

 

[andles]

In the spirit of being helpful, swallowing a big gob of Crisco, bear grease or hog lard will also help expel the thread along with breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

[HuntAway]

Get into a pre/post/load routine.

Mine is. Damp patch, wipe frizzen, wipe flint, wipe pan. Same patch down the barrel, flip and down again. Dry patch down the barrel. Save the dry one to start routine after the shot.
Pick in the vent, load powder/prb.
Pull pick, prime, shoot.
Repeat.

It works for me. Usually when something goes wrong it is because I missed one of my steps. I have gone 5-10 shots in a row just loading and shooting but usually I'll get a FIP before the tenth shot rolls around.

HA