Oops... bought a non firing Replica

[ajbennettnc]

Can you just replace the barrel? Sounds like everything else works ok.

I'm thinking so, if I come across one that'll fit it I might.

 

[springfield art]

Yeah, I don't think, if I was Bobby, that would be a good idea. Lesson learned all around, and not that much money after all.

The barrels may be made of an inferior cast material, rather than the higher quality barrels meant to be drilled or bored. I'd avoid.

 

[earlwb]

When I bought my example something like 50 years ago only the frizzen was not hardened. I got it case hardened. But it is only a thin layer and wears off after so many shots. Thus I have to refresh it from time to time. I did get another frizzen from Dixie Gun Works but I never got around to fitting it to the gun. But it would not surprise me that they changed the rules on nonfiring replicas over the years. The Japanese have a rather large industry of making really good non firing replicas of all sorts of guns. They are popular to buy in Japan too.

It might be worth studying it more. As one could drill the flash hole and bore a hole into the breech to connect the two holes up. A stepped chamber like setup.

 

[Commodore Swab]

A truly horrible lock based on India standards. I have torn apart at least a dozen of them and while the exterior is about the same the guts are from bad to worse. I used to pick these pistols up for 50-100 and a chambers gun makers lock kit for 85. You can cut the chambers lock to fit the stock and end up with a decent toy with a good lock for less or comparable to an Indian import. Now people want hundreds for the pistol and the lock prices have increased considerably so I stopped doing them. I do have a box of discarded locks that I "could" probably fix and sell to people desperate to make theirs work but that is passing on junk and asking for future problems. But as mentioned there is some modifications needed but a chambers gun makers lock is a lock solution. Typically the trigger needs to be trimmed down which is a bear as often the pins for the guard aren't drilled thru so they need to be driven through the stock to be removed.

 

[springfield art]

Thinking I got a decent deal but knowing what I was buying would need some work, I purchased what I thought I knew to be a fireable Miroku/Ultra Hi version of an 1805 Harper's Ferry pistol repro. The lock appeared to be the same as the locks of my old Japanese .67 pistol, and the barrel breech looks identical. I noticed it was stamped "Tower" and thought simply that somebody had swapped out the orginal lock with a replacement. Years ago, I handled a pistol that looked identical to this one, but with the standard Miroku/Ultra hi low eared buttcap instead of the tined buttcap that real Harper's Ferry pistols had. The one on the "gun" I'm discussing is sort of an in-between, but I assumed that was just a variation that Ultra Hi made.

When the pistol arrived, I was tickled. Although of course it wouldn't be historically accurate, I though it would be fun to shoot, and I got a deal on it that I couldn't pass up. I should have passed it up, lol.

I noticed the vent was missing, but figured it just meant I'd had to drill one. Not too big a deal. Then, I dropped the rammer down the bore and it stuck out 2 inches or so past where it should.
Turns out, the bore was never fully drilled. I take this as evidence that the Japanese British style pistols were made by cutting out the whole barrel shape tang and all, drilling the bore and vent in a blind drilling situation. Safe enough with reasonable loads so long as there's enough metal at the breech (like the early cast handcannons.)
Don't know what to do now. The lock seems to be functional, but not hardened as it would not spark. I plan to harden the parts and try to get a spark out of it, and finish boring out the pan to a proper shape. Might make an ad looking for a barrel from the firing version of the gun. Maybe I can find a machinist to finish boring the barrel?
Thoughts amd advice appreciated. May this be a lesson to us all to make sure you can see a vent hole in a picture before buying a gun online. I have kicked myself multiple times. I should have known when the seller listed it as replica, but in my snobbery I thought that they had simply listed it wrong. I was humbled. Perhaps this will be a neat project nonetheless, and at least others might learn from my folly.

I recall seeing these at a gun show once or twice. Decorators only! Props for the 'gun room' or re-enactment.

 

[Pete G]

Box it up and send (anonymously) to your worst enemy.

 

[Capnball]

I think it's cool for what it is (if not a bit over priced)
I have tower flintlock pistol probably made by the same company. I paid $40 for it at a gun show. Looks great on the wall. I have a few replicas and relics that I'm not afraid to display.

 

[Sooty Scot]

My ignorance is showing.
If it was made as a non-firing replica, why drill, thread, and install a plug, if the bore was never drilled full length.
It seems it would be cheaper to simply weld the tang onto the barrel and assemble the piece.
The and only reason I can imagine for the extra machining and assembly would be if the mfg expected it to be disassembled as a teaching prop (or for similar use).
Shame you can't trace it's history.

 

[Dwight Dutton]

I have one like the one on the bottom. I got mine to work. Eventually. ONLY reason I messed with it was that it had a good looking wood stock

I had to reshape both springs and put a different Frizzen on it. Even after hardening the one it came with did not work, or fit. There was a gap between the pan cover and the barrel and the spring was so bad the pan cover would not open when hit. I took the spring off and then it would bounce back and close. It now has one off a traditions rifle.

The parts on it were all low carbon mild steel, the lowest grade there is. I shoot marbles and clay balls out of mine and occasionally a .60 ball I cast mostly out of zinc slag. Still the appearance, noise, smoke and function impress all the people on the range less than half my age who have never seen anything like it before.

 

[Blitz]

Thinking I got a decent deal but knowing what I was buying would need some work, I purchased what I thought I knew to be a fireable Miroku/Ultra Hi version of an 1805 Harper's Ferry pistol repro. The lock appeared to be the same as the locks of my old Japanese .67 pistol, and the barrel breech looks identical. I noticed it was stamped "Tower" and thought simply that somebody had swapped out the orginal lock with a replacement. Years ago, I handled a pistol that looked identical to this one, but with the standard Miroku/Ultra hi low eared buttcap instead of the tined buttcap that real Harper's Ferry pistols had. The one on the "gun" I'm discussing is sort of an in-between, but I assumed that was just a variation that Ultra Hi made.

When the pistol arrived, I was tickled. Although of course it wouldn't be historically accurate, I though it would be fun to shoot, and I got a deal on it that I couldn't pass up. I should have passed it up, lol.

I noticed the vent was missing, but figured it just meant I'd had to drill one. Not too big a deal. Then, I dropped the rammer down the bore and it stuck out 2 inches or so past where it should.
Turns out, the bore was never fully drilled. I take this as evidence that the Japanese British style pistols were made by cutting out the whole barrel shape tang and all, drilling the bore and vent in a blind drilling situation. Safe enough with reasonable loads so long as there's enough metal at the breech (like the early cast handcannons.)
Don't know what to do now. The lock seems to be functional, but not hardened as it would not spark. I plan to harden the parts and try to get a spark out of it, and finish boring out the pan to a proper shape. Might make an ad looking for a barrel from the firing version of the gun. Maybe I can find a machinist to finish boring the barrel?
Thoughts amd advice appreciated. May this be a lesson to us all to make sure you can see a vent hole in a picture before buying a gun online. I have kicked myself multiple times. I should have known when the seller listed it as replica, but in my snobbery I thought that they had simply listed it wrong. I was humbled. Perhaps this will be a neat project nonetheless, and at least others might learn from my folly.

Every blackpowder firearm I have is a replica , they are however funvtional replicas.
some times we read into a discription what we desire and hood wink ourselves.
i must say you are handeling this very well. Probably much better than I would.
I commend you for your resolve to treat this as a project and make the effort to do so .
what a great attitude!
Best of luck and may you bring this effort to fruition and a good outcome.
A lesson to us all.

thank you Blitz

 

[Dwight Dutton]

I have a firing 250 year old replica. Probably better called a fake, though it might actually be legit, just made by a subcontractor. I have done research and such things did in fact happen.

Its a Harpers Ferry 1804 Model - but it has the wrong markings on it. I have established it is indeed of 18th century manufacture - but also that it is not an actual Harpers Ferry. It is a .54 Smoothbore, not a .58 Rifled which I think ALL of the reproductions are. Though I do not know why.