Opinion on Repro Muskets

[Okwaho]

Tom, you said that "If you are doing F&I War either as a member of the Compagnies Franche or regular infantry{as per Louisbourg etc.} the models 1728 and 1746 would be the proper weapon.Military Heritage and Loyalist Arms offer the Model 1728 and MMTVC offers the model 1717 which isn't really correct for F&I but could perhaps be modified in some way."
So, in your opinion, IF one HAD to get one of these guns, the 1728 would be the lesser of two evils.

Marcus, yes I did say that. Actually either the infantry models 1728/1746 or even the 1754 would be OK but nobody makes anything except for the 1717 and 1728 so you're right,the model 1728 is the only gun really appropriate for regular infantry through the F&I War.If,however,you are doing Compagnies Franche in the F&I War you need to remember that Tulle lost its contract in 1741 and the Ministry de la Marine began in the 1740's buying guns primarily from St. Etienne and to some degree from Charleville and Maubege the other two Royal Armories.Tulle became a Royal Armory I believe in 1777.These guns were similar to the Army Model 1728.The Model 1746 was very similar but again nobody is making them either.It looks like we're stuck with the Model 1728 for F&I by default.
There is,however,possibly a way out of this mess, First of all to be brutally frank, there aren't more than a handful of reenactors out there who can tell the difference between the Army Models 1717 and 1728 as well as between the Army model 1717 and the Tulle Marine 1729/1734.It all depends on from whom you want to buy your 1728. I happen to like MVTC guns and the folks who sell them.I'm not impressed with the Military Heritage guns and I haven't heard too awful much about Loyalist Arms.I think you can see where I'm going with this. There's not a whole lot of difference between the Army 1717 and the Tulle Marine 1729-1734.Probably the main difference is the vertical bridle on the 1717 frizzen and the barrel on the 1729-1734 Marine gun which still has the 10-12" octagon portion with the wedding bands.There may be some difference at the muzzle on the[url] stocks.Again[/url] it's up to you.

Incidentally I talked to a good friend in New England who told me that several Army Model 1717's have turned up in New England and the opinion up there is that when the French started unloading their old and often obsolete guns for shipment to America in 1777 that in cleaning out their warehouses there were some complete Model 1717's as well as some parts for them.There's no definite proof for this but it makes sense considering Ben Franklin's ability to secure arms for America.
You really need to get "The French Soldier In Colonial America" by Rene Chartrand,Historical Arms Series No.18. I believe Track and the others sell it for about $10.00 or so. There are at present 4 copies on[url] www.abebooks.com[/url] ranging from $10,00 to $15.00 plus postage.
I hope this helps
Tom Patton

 

[JV Puleo]

In as much as anyone can be sure of anything derived from observation of surviving guns, I agree with you. The M1728 (which is an extremely rare gun) is also in evidence. I've had the remnants of at least three of them - one intact but without a lock (the Canadian government bought it from me) another restocked as a militia musket and a third cut down and converted to percussion. I also have seen a nearly perfect detached lock from a 1717. I have a cherry stocked fowler thats missing its lock that was given to me by the man who owned the 1717 lock...that lock came so close to fitting the mortise on the fowler (which I'm sure you agree is not common with these early gouns) that it is very likely that it once had a 1717 lock.
Joe Puleo

 

[Carteret Kid]

Is anyone offering a French 1746 model ?

 

[Wes/Tex]

Is anyone offering a French 1746 model ?

Actually, the model sold by Middlesex, et. al., is a M.1746 which is basically the M.1728 with a metal ramrod as an update. Suppose it should be called m.1728/46.

 

[Okwaho]

Wes, I touched {well sorta} on that in my post.MVTC offers the 1717 only.Loyalist and Military heritage offer the 1728.The only MH guns I've handled are the LLP's at Loudoun and I wasn't at all impressed. I haven't seen the Loyalist 1728 butI havw heard some adverse comments on them as well as the MH folks.The major problem here is the question of which French impression you are doing and in what time period.For regular infantry then the model 1728/46 is OK for the F&I War.Sure,there are some problems but that's the name of the game and they are minor.For Compagnies Franche pre 1741, then the 1728 is close enough to the Marine 1729/34 that it can be used again with a little tweaking.Anyway you go there's some tweaking and imaginative descriptions of your gun to contend with.But,hey,nobody's perfect.Then too there's that awful ogre of customer satisfaction and the burning question of how much wood has to come off.You pays yer dime and you takes yer chances.By the way, nobody asked{and I wondered} why I don't carry either a Fusil de chasse or a Fusil fin de chasse et du service by Tulle or any other armory.Well I don't carry either. They're a little late for my impression.I am however, interested in the Fusils fin de chasse and have found some really neat info.
Tom Patton

 

[Wes/Tex]

Yeah, Tom, I keep looking at the M.1717 and wondering if it could be finagled into something about then or earlier. Seems like removing the external bridle would open up some possibilities. Am reading an account of the Battle of Bunker Hill that has a period mention of militia using old French muskets from the sack of Louisburg or something to that. Makes for some interesting possibilities though. I know Don Troiani has painted a picture of a Minute-Man at Lexington with a M.1728 musket with a similar kind of reasoning for being there. Oh well.

 

[Okwaho]

Wes, Fortress Louisbourg fell twice, first in 1745 when approximately 4000 New Englanders laid siege and took the Fortress. It fell again in 1758 to a large british force. After their success in 1745 the New Englanders brought back a large number of arms of varying types and they were sold ,I think,in Boston.I think one could do something with a 1717 but again I doubt many know the difference between these types of French guns.
Tom Patton

 

[Grenadier1758]

I stand humbly corrected. Thanks for the information on the French muskets. I had alsways thought that the muskets used during the F&I war were the marine muskets. The troops here were generally classified as part of the French Marine establishment.

 

[buspete]

Mike: Great job on re-doing Rick's pistol. I especially like the mellow color of the brass.

The 1979 date code on the barrel is not when the barrel was made. It is a date code that corresponds to a letter in a file somewhere that would have given approval by the Indian Ministry of Defense that would have given the manufacturer permission to produce that particular configuration of weapon. Their laws are pretty strict, and even a flintlock is a heavily controlled item there. The other marks are usually a serial number, "Udr" or something similar, which stands for Udiapur, the town in which the barrels are made, and usually the initials of whoever made the barrel.

The wood will forever be the lowest point on any guns from South Asia. Their climate results in a different kind of wood: oily and wide grained. Take a look at antique "contract guns" and WW2 era Enfields to see the same issues. I've got a collection of WW2 bolt rifles, and if you put an Enfield Mk3 from Lithgow next to one from Ishapore, you'll see a difference in the wood where the Ishapore wood stands proud above the reciever maybe 1/4" more than the Lithgow does.

Generally they use teak, and until it dries a good long time, it takes surgically sharp chisels to work it or else it tears instead of cutting.

 

[Many Klatch]

Mike:

So that's what that pistol is supposed to look like!

I picked up one for $100 off of a trade blanket a year ago. The half-cock trigger pull was lighter than the full cock. After some major reworking of the tumbler, it now shoots pretty well for a .64 smoothbore. Big problem is that it eats a flint every 10 shots.

Reckon I'll have to remove some wood and lighten that bad boy some.