Opinions? 4F in a .32 Crockett?

[rodwha]

The powder in black powder cartridges is often very much crushed, often up to 1/4" to get a better burn and more accuracy. Sometimes when someone dissects an old BP cartridge, they state: "the powder had turned into a solid pellet". Nope, it was compacted when loaded. That would be an even smaller grain size than ffffg, if any grain even remained. However, I don't know of any, or if there are any '73 Colts or M73 Springfield rifles that have been blown up with black powder. ??

Curator has stated that he has disassembled a lot of 19th century metallic cartridges and noted 4F and finer in a lot of them including larger calibers. Maybe he found some “solid plugs” as well but didn’t mention it.

 

[Rat]

Those old loads were compressed quite a bit, it wasn't the ballon-head case that allowed 40 grains in the .45 Colt, but rather the fact that it was a compressed load. (but I still read everywhere that "modern solid head cases don't allow as much powder in the case". Not true.) Same with the .45-70. (I can get 80 grains in a modern .45-70 case) Not discussing cartridges but just illustrating that powder crushed into 4f or finer didn't cause unusual pressures. Increased yes, but did not create a "bomb". Those first cartridge guns probably were weaker than a muzzle loader, although a Sharps will withstand impressive amounts of PSI. I did read one account where the dissector reported a "solid plug", which I would guess could have been caused by moisture, either pre or post loading.

 

[Rifleman1776]

even experienced, expert builders, etc. cling to what someone told them and who was told the same thing and on and on.

A lot of often ignored truth in that statement. When I started this game I was told a lot of things, by champions and experts that such and such was the ONLY way to do things. e.g. ONLY 3Fg in .45 cal. and smaller, and ONLY 2Fg in .50 cal. and larger. And for priming ONLY 4Fg. After 50 years I have gotten past most of the ingrained ONLY rules. Except with using 4Fg for priming my flintlocks. I've seen the tests and posts and, intellectually understand I'm not gaining much, if anything, by using 4Fg instead of 3Fg for priming. But, I stubbornly stick with 4Fg because using anything else I sorta feel like I am driving the wrong way on the interstate. Yep, I cling.

 

[SDSmlf]

The powder in black powder cartridges is often very much crushed, often up to 1/4" to get a better burn and more accuracy. Sometimes when someone dissects an old BP cartridge, they state: "the powder had turned into a solid pellet". Nope, it was compacted when loaded. That would be an even smaller grain size than ffffg, if any grain even remained. However, I don't know of any, or if there are any '73 Colts or M73 Springfield rifles that have been blown up with black powder. ??

Original Smith Carbine loads are not in a brass case, rather some type of rubber case and are not compressed. Powder was loose and not compacted. It was finer than what we call ffff today.

Had time to look at my Lyman Blackpowder Handbook I referenced in previous post and notes I kept in it confirmed that my accuracy load at the time (1976 - 1980) for my 1860 Lyman was 30 grains of ffff. Lyman data showed max load at 37 grains of ffff.

My notes also show I shot ffff in 45 TC up to 120 grains, although accuracy load was about 60 grains. Testing notes show CVA Kentucky liked 80 grains of fff or 70 grains of ffff for accuracy. Shot CVA up to 100 grains with both fff and ffff. Guess we didn’t know better? Or maybe it didn’t matter?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Original Smith Carbine loads are not in a brass case, rather some type of rubber case and are not compressed. Powder was loose and not compacted. It was finer than what we call ffff today.

Had time to look at my Lyman Blackpowder Handbook I referenced in previous post and notes I kept in it confirmed that my accuracy load at the time (1976 - 1980) for my 1860 Lyman was 30 grains of ffff. Lyman data showed max load at 37 grains of ffff.

My notes also show I shot ffff in 45 TC up to 120 grains, although accuracy load was about 60 grains. Testing notes show CVA Kentucky liked 80 grains of fff or 70 grains of ffff for accuracy. Shot CVA up to 100 grains with both fff and ffff. Guess we didn’t know better? Or maybe it didn’t matter?

Excellent. Another user and the earth is still in one piece

 

[BrownBear]

Excellent. Another user and the earth is still in one piece

Yup. Speculation has grown to religious fervor in this case.

 

[Rat]

Do I have to post a picture of that can of 4f I have again, just to set you guys straight? Sheeeesh.

 

[marsh trapper]

Opinions are like rectal orifices, everyone has one. I read the previous thread about using 4fg as a main charge before making my request, then again after. Only Britsmoothy bothered to answer my question as to if 10 grains of 4fg would be safe, in my .32 Crockett. I have a lot of 4fg on hand and seldom use it. I was thinking that 10 grains of 4fg might be equivalent to 15 grains of 3fg, with a 33 1/3% saving. If we limit ourselves to questions and items that have not been previously discussed, we will shortly have nothing to discuss. robin

Od never use ffffg but if i had too and was in a pinch 10 grains i think you would be fine

 

[45man]

Probably work in the .32 but I call FFFFG the Bullseye of BP. I would still prefer FFFG. If the hole at the breech plug takes in the small amount of 4 F so there is an airspace, I would not do it. All guns are not the same and all of mine have flat plugs but I have seen some where the nipple hole went into the breech plug so were bored out.