Opinions on rifle choice needed!

[rlconnell]

Howdy folks,
Been awhile since I've been on here, but I've joined a primitive weapons only hunt club and will be getting back into the muzzleloader to hunt with(also hunt w/longbow & wood arrows).
I'm considering a 50 cal. Lyman Deerstalker and would like everyone's thoughts good or bad about this rifle. I want to use Buffalo Ball-ets & 777 powder in it as I used that bullet w/ffg in an Austin-Halleck rifle I had and enjoyed the accuracy I achieved.
Let me know what you think!
Rick

 

[Rifleman1776]

I want to use Buffalo Ball-ets & 777

Buffalo ball-ets, fake powder and "primitive hunt" do not belong in the same discussion. :shake:
Want to go modern? Go modern. :td:
I don't follow the factory made guns much. Is the Deerstalker an inline?

 

[jamesthomas]

I would go buy a Lyman Great Plains Rifle an shoot a roundball myself if I was just starting out. Don't let anyone tell you a roundball won't kill deer, They will, just as good if not better than those Ball-ets, plus roundballs are cheaper to buy an make. :2 Later on when the Blackpowder Hornet Stings ya, You can start molding your on Rbs, Saving for a custom rifle, making possible bags, powder horns, etc. you'll say when did this all start? an the answer will be when I bought that dang Great Plains Rifle. :thumbsup: P.S. You can buy Blackpowder online a WHOLE lot cheaper than those fake blackpowders. An Rifleman 1776 is right those words, Ball-etts- an Triple7 don't belong in the same breath as "Primitive Hunting"

 

[cynthialee]

.50 is a good deer gun

Like already said you just need a patched round ball. I know they work pretty good. I got to spend the last few minutes with a large buck a fellow forum member harvested last year who was shot with a simple PRB at about 60 yards. Pretty sure he was only using about 80-90 grains of 3F black powder.

If your barrel is too fast for a roundball then a nice standard issue conical like a minie or maxiball would suit your purposes from what I have gathered.

 

[FishDFly]

I would not purchase any brand or model of BP rifle until I had actually handle and inspect one in person to see if it physically fits me and what the workmanship is.

Mail ordering a rifle is like mail ordering a wife, is that wise? Who orders a horse without riding it or buy a bull with out testing it, only those who do not know what they are doing?

 

[cynthialee]

I have rolled the dice on mail ordering guns and not had many issues. But I only buy from people with a history of good sales.

 

[jamesthomas]

What Richard says :thumbsup: . It would be best if you are able to go to a store an try out a couple of guns to see which one fit you best. What"s your ball park price range for a rifle? I don't know how much the production guns cost cause I jumped in the pool with a custom rifle right off the start.

 

[biliff]

Previous thread on the deerstalker. A forum search will turn up more. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/.../1259955/hl/Deerstalker/fromsearch/1/#1259955

Believe the buffalo ball-ette has been out of production for awhile. Again, a forum search will turn up more info. Personally, don't see the point in them.

If you're going to fling sticks, might as well throw PRB.

 

[Zonie]

The .50 is a great caliber for taking deer.

Although I haven't used it because the gun stores seem to think it is particularly valuable, 777 is reported to be a good synthetic powder.

Perhaps its one failing in addition to its high price is it seems to cause burned patches if it is loaded under a patched roundball.
Putting a tight wad or something like corn meal between the powder load and the patched roundball will reduce this burning.

As for the fact that 777 and a Buffalo Ball-ett worked well in a Austin-Hallick, that has nothing to do with any other muzzleloading rifle.

Each ML rifle will have some loads that work very well and some loads that don't work worth a darn.

You won't know how a particular load combination works in a muzzleloader until you try it by shooting at least 5 shots.

If your looking for a fairly light weight gun to carry, the Deerstalker is a good choice.

The Deerstalker, like the TC Hawken is somewhat similar to the muzzleloading rifles made in California in the 1850-1865 time period. It is not very close to the rifles used by the mountain men.

If you can tolerate a little more weight the Great Plains rifle might be a better choice.

It is much closer to the rifles carried by the mountain men and if you ever want to sell it you will have much better luck than you would if you were reselling a Deerstalker.

 

[rlconnell]

Thanks everyone for your opinions. Keep 'em coming as I'm learning new things already.

 

[rodwha]

I have a .50 cal percussion blued Deerstalker. It's not qute broken in yet though, but these are my thought on it:

I initially, due to a lack of understanding of traditional projectiles, figured a RB was about worthless as it didn't hold on to it's energy for long with it's low BC value. Having read far too many accounts of RB's giving complete passthroughs on deer out to 125 yds or so gave me reason to reconsider. I've been shooting RB's through mine so far, and intend on doing so unless I hunt something substantial, in which I'll try conicals.

The design of the rifle is a mix of traditional and modern. A side lock, but with a recoil pad, fiber optic sights, and a stock design more reminiscent of a modern gun, as well as modern sling swivel mounts. But I liked these options.

I chose this rifle over a Traditions Deerhunter and Pedersoli Country Hunter. The Pedersoli may or may not have been a better choice. It's doubtful I'll ever find out. But I'm pleased with my choice so far. I was looking for a handy sized stalking rifle.

I've yet to work on accuracy, but 70 grns of Pyrodex (RS/P) and a .490" RB using grape seed oil for patch lube, and cleaning between every 3-5 shots, gives me groups ~3" at 50 yds. It's likely this can be cut in half I'd guess. I may not find 1/2, but it's likely capable of it with some arrangement of ball diameter, patch thickness, powder granulation, charge, cap, etc. I'll be happy with 4" groups at 100 yds, and will try to some extent to get the best I can, but I can't say I'll spend my lifetime searching for it.

If shooting other than RB's you may want to consider their stainless model as it has shallow grooves.

I am a bit curious as to what constitutes traditional hunting in the club. I'm not exactly a purist, and will likely try different things to see what works and doesn't, but it is odd to me to consider "traditional" with non traditional things. I won't flame you for it though.

What are your hunting conditions? You may find a better option depending.

 

[rodwha]

Triple 7...

I've been using it in my pistol, and want to stock/carry only one powder. I've intended on using it in my rifle as well. But now Goex makes Olde Eynsford, which is a BP that's more energetic like Swiss. I'm buying some soon to try out in both my pistol and rifle.

My pistol is very easy to clean and doesn't have a bunch of soot all over it. My rifle, shooting the Pyrodex (RS/P) is quite dirty, and I don't care for it at all, and wouldn't buy it ever again unless it's my last option. But I hear a lot about the "crud" ring it leaves. I'll have to try it out and see...

Since my pistol is quite limited on capacity I want energetic, and that leaves me with T7, Swiss, or Olde E. I can get Old E much cheaper, and hope that I like it as well, if not better. I'm also interested in the smell. T7 is boring. That's the only thing I like about Pyrodex. It makes me think of the 4th Of July as it smells similar to firecrackers.

You've obviously used T7 a bit, and I'm curious about your "crud" ring experience, and what you did to remove it. Since it is a bit off topic you could PM me...

 

[BrownBear]

We have a pretty broad spectrum of muzzleloaders, and with all those to choose from the Deerstalker percussion in 54 caliber is hands down my wife's favorite. She prefers its balance to the 50, plus it's a little lighter. She's using a really mild load (60 grains of 3f- either Goex or Pyrodex) under a patched round ball, and it just slaps the deer silly. We've never recovered a ball from her deer in spite of the light charge. She holds her shots to 50 yards and is a dead cert shot, but still....

As for Triple Seven, got a hunting pard that refuses to use anything else. I can't find any fault with it based on his results.

I'd get the gun and stuff just about everything you can find down the muzzle to see which shoots best. Then decide what to hunt with. The gun will most assuredly have its say in what you shoot.

 

[A.Sharpe]

I am new here, but not new to BP. I would suggest a .50 TC Hawken Rifle. Shoots great PRB and with mini balls. Also holds a great resale value.

 

[Eljay]

I'd just stick with patched round ball. They're really quite effective.

I use 777 when practical (not flintlocks) partially because the smell of sulphur makes me a bit queasy. I get that way visiting Yellowstone too. Just one of those things.

I have no real opinion on the rifle, other than that Lyman often produces kind of ugly guns - just the way they're stained, etc. To my taste, anyway. I like their kits better than buying pre-assembled. That might be a vote against mail order versus trying to find one you can see first, whereas I'd buy something like a Pedersoli over the Internet, no question.

 

[Spikebuck]

I have used the buffalo ball-ets before and liked them since they fly well out of slow-twist barrels, but give a little more weight. However, the production of them is spotty at best and I quit using them because I could not count on supply. Hornady has the PA Hunter that's pretty much the same thing, though. http://www.hornady.com/muzzleloading/great-plainspa-conical

As far as synthetic powders go, 777 is the best performing I've used. With 90 gr of 2F and a .530 round ball was averaging 1933 fps.

However, if you're looking to go "primitive" you might want to consider a flinter, patched roundball, and real black powder. After 13 years of shooting percussion, the last couple I've started with flinters and love it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks everyone for your opinions. Keep 'em coming as I'm learning new things already.

Congrats on your attitude. My comment would have given offense to some. I have been called a black powder snob and take that as a compliment. This ml/bp game is an effort to preserve the old ways.

EDIT: BTW, I googled an image of the Deerstalker rifle. It passes muster for this forum. :grin:

 

[bpd303]

Opinions are like rifles...everyone has at least one and some of us have way to many. :grin: Not speaking to anyone in particular.

 

[stinkyfeet]

Get the one you want, and the load it like is up to the gun.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Lots of folks badmouth the Deerstalker for not following authentic design (it's largely that rubber buttpad).

Nevertheless, I fell into the opportunity & brought home a 35 year old Deerstalker caplock in .54 cal.

Once you tune it all up, break it in and get the set trigger adjusted, you will have an accurate and reliable rifle.

I already have a .50 GPR Flint and am happy with it, but the Deerstalker is more of what I would build whenever I get around to it someday - 29" barrel swings & points easily, the weight is comfy to carry, and the accuracy is beyond my expectations. First time out, I produced a 5 shot group, all touching at 50 yards & have done similar at 75. I'm using 80 Gr. Pyrodex RS (2F) with a TIGHTLY patched ball. While not cutting the patch on the rifling while loading, I've found a short starter too painful to whack with the palm of my hand, and use a small wooden mallet. I attribute the impressive accuracy to the tight PRB & not necessarily to my rifleman skills.

For shooting fun and a capable hunter, you really can't go wrong with the Deerstalker - look around for one on sale on-line from the usual retailers, and compare final price to include tax & shipping. Some sellers don't charge tax, so that can be a good price break. The older Deerstalkers have traditional sights, and I think the new ones have those day-glow fiber optic inserts, so be aware.