Opinions, please of Pedersoli Trade Musket

[Enfield1]

Fellow smoke pollers, David Pedersoli makes a 20 gauge Trade Musket that is listed in the Dixie Gun Works catalogue. I am aware that Pedersoli products are pretty good for factory production, but I was wondering if anybody out there has had any experience with this model. I am looking for my first blackpowder smoothbore that won't brake the bank. Dixie has these for $825.oo. Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Rebel]

You can get a fairly nice semi custom smoothbore for that much or a bit less. The pedersoli is a decent gun, but way over priced.

 

[Le Grand]

MinnieBall, If you don't get one of the smoothbores from Jackie Brown or North Star West, you'll always wish you did. Le Grand

 

[TANSTAAFL]

You can get a fairly nice semi custom smoothbore for that much or a bit less. The pedersoli is a decent gun, but way over priced.

Ditto, and ditto!!!

 

[Rick Davis]

Give Steve Zihn a call, he posts here and makes a h*ll of a gun!

 

[dodgecity]

I have one. It and my fusil de chasse are the 2 best shooting smooth bores I have for round ball. Took a white tail with it this year at about 40 yards. I got mine at Cabela's last winter, and it was less than $800. Can't speak as to the historical accuracy of the piece, but it functions well in the field.

 

[tg]

For about the same money you can get an American made one that is closer HC wise to the originals,
TVM, Northstarr West, Jackie Brown are a few sources that come to mind....you can often find a good used one for even less money.

 

[Okwaho]

Fellow smoke pollers, David Pedersoli makes a 20 gauge Trade Musket that is listed in the Dixie Gun Works catalogue. I am aware that Pedersoli products are pretty good for factory production, but I was wondering if anybody out there has had any experience with this model. I am looking for my first blackpowder smoothbore that won't brake the bank. Dixie has these for $825.oo. Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks.

It all depends on what you want in a repro musket.If you simply want a shooter,Pedersoli makes a good serviceable gun for a decent price. My son has a short land pattern{"2nd model"}Bess that he got in 1985 or 1986 and we finally had to replace the frizzen last year after 19-20 years of reenacting.

As to authenticity,the "Bess Trade gun" like the "Bess carbine" is a fantasy gun and not correct for reenacting. I don't mean to say that there were no cut back Besses but they are abberations and not the norm.There were some long land pattern Besses{1st model}which had shortened barrels {based on approximately 2-4" barrel segments found on Rogers Island}which were cut back but the Besses with barrels of less than 40" were simply abberations or were cut back many years later in the same way that Civil War muskets were cut back usually to use as shotguns.
Tom Patton

 

[Rebel]

Tom, i think the Tradegun he is refering to is the N.W. Tradegun they make and not the cut down Bess carbine tradegun. It is a .20 ga with a 36" barrel.

 

[Okwaho]

Rod I stand corrected. Dixie does indeed offer a trade musket by Davide Pedersoli as described by the original post.They also offer a Dixie Brown Bess Trade Gun for $850. and it is that gun with its lack of authenticity to which part of my post was directed.The Dixie trade musket by Pedersoli looks OK and Pedersoli guns in general are quality guns.I do not, however, like the sideplate and cannot tell whether the guard is iron{correct} or brass{incorrect}I am familiar with the NorthStar West guns and if I were buying a Northwest gun I would pay the difference and buy a NorthStar West gun instead of a Dixie gun.I think the quality and service would be much better.I also think the their guns are more historically correct.
By the way the large bow on the guard of a Northwest gun was not intended to allow mittened use but rather to allow Indians to use a two finger trigger pull.Another urban myth bites the dust.
Tom Patton

 

[lockjaw]

...with all due respect, :bow:... why would an indian use two fingers on the trigger ?

 

[Okwaho]

...with all due respect, :bow:... why would an indian use two fingers on the trigger ?

There are two venerable and overworked myths on Northwest guns. The first is the need for large guards to accomodate mittened fingers and the second is that the price of a gun was the number of made beaver pelts stacked on the ground needed to reach the muzzle of the gun.

As to the former in 1740 the HBC began to offer enlarged guards.
"The reason which precipitated the large guard was included in the report to the London office from Joseph Isbister at Fort Albany dated 24 August,1740. It noted that the Indians would like...
to have theguard larger,it being usual to draw the trigger with two fingers which our guns will not admit of.
Northwest guns were not tuned to a fine light trigger pull. Two fingers were probably necessary.That is the real reason the large trigger guard was introduced on the guns ordered in 1740 for delivery the next year. No comments on the Indians immediate reaction has been found but the large guard continued to be used for more tha 150 years"
"Trade Guns Of The Hudson's Bay Company 1670-1970" {2003} by S.James Gooding P.68

As to the second myth,that of piling made beaver pelts muzzle high,Gooding writes:
"This would be a good place to point out the inaccuracy of the legend that trade guns were made with long barrels because the selling price was a pile of beaver pelts tothe height of the muzzle.A stretched and dried beaver pelt would compress to less than one-half inch. At that rate a 3 ft.N.W. gun would have required more than 100 pelts. The 1684 price of 12 MBr pelts for one five foot gun illustrates the absurdity of the legend".
Gooding PP.15-16

It should be noted that gun length referred to barrel length and not over all length thus a three foot gun was one with a three foot barrel while a five foot gun referred to a gun with a five foot barrel
I hope this answers the question
Tom Patton :v :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[tmdreb]

To make matters confusing, Dixie has listed 3 very similar Pedersoli guns on its website. There are two that are virtually identical, called "LEWIS AND CLARK COMMEMORATIVE TRADE RIFLE" and "INDIAN TRADE MUSKET." These are the ones with the 20 guage, 36" barrel. There is also the "BROWN BESS TRADE GUN" that is .75 cal, with a 30" browned barrel and lock. This last weapon is essentially a cut-down Bess.

The 36" bbl. and 20 guage barrel would sure be nice in a Light Infantry Bess with the pistol grip triggerguard.

 

[Mike Brooks]

and the second is that the price of a gun was the number of made beaver pelts stacked on the ground needed to reach the muzzle of the gun.

I wanted to correct this, but didn't want to dodge all the arrows shot my way.... Thanks for clearing that up Tom, you're a braver man than I. :bow:

 

[lockjaw]

...thanks for the explanation, I'll try that and see if it helps on my caywood wilson :haha: ...
my opinion of the pedersoli...I'm no expert...is that it is a "tribute" to the northwest gun and not intended to be an accurate replica.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Tom: Thanks for that information. It was my understanding that this kind of trade was being done by the early colonists in the 1500s, but had changed after the French became major trading competitors. I know LaSalle and Marquette explored the Illinois River, and Mississippi rivers in the early 1650s, but I have not studied earlier periods of exploration and colonies very much in detail. I have been under the impression that by the time that Lasalle and Marquette traveled throughout, that the practice of gouging the Indians for Beaver pelts was long ended. Do you have any sources that indicate if the gouging practice actually occurred much earlier, and ended, as I was under the impression it did , after the French began giving the Indians a better deal? Or is this gouging really just a myth that has come down even in history books through the years? I will have to dust off some 40 year old plus history books to even find where I first read about the gouging claims.

Thanks. paul

 

PS> Tell Mike Brooks...

So much for civility. Ever notice that folks act differently over the internet than they do in person?

Sean

 

[Okwaho]

and the second is that the price of a gun was the number of made beaver pelts stacked on the ground needed to reach the muzzle of the gun.

I wanted to correct this, but didn't want to dodge all the arrows shot my way.... Thanks for clearing that up Tom, you're a braver man than I. :bow:

That's because you've been playing with those chickens to long and lost your nerve.
Tom Patton :applause: :v

 

[dlemaster]

Paul
I was under the impression that French trade goods were more expensive than English trade goods. The French were more native friendly than the English traders and were thus able to stay in the market. The French were well entrenched in the Indian trade very early on.
If this is wrong I hope Okwaho will jump in and correct me.

Regards, Dave