Opinions please

[54ball]

Here's some questions you have to ask yourself.

Since a new 1777 retails at $1400.00, is there $500.00 worth of damage to this gun?

Gunbroker is an auction site so $700.00 today could be $1200.00 tomorrow. At present there are no Charlevilles currenty on there.

There is one Bess on Gunbroker that you can start bidding on for the discount price of $1300. That's about $400 more than a new one from Cabelas or Dixie.

Even if you you got one for 700, what kind of condition will it be in?
How much after shipping?

Just some things to consider.

 

[nit wit]

Shoeless:
If you send it back you will be gunless too. Where is the 3 day inspection rule that some one mentioned.You should have asked for photos.Remember an education is an expensive thing!
Nit Wit

 

[Shoeless]

The pictures were deleted as soon as I agreed to the offer. Now that I want to return the item the seller is trying to refund $250.I paid by Paypal so I have options. I wish I had good pics but there are small lines and marks in the bore that the bore brush wont remove. I believe the marks are rust these old eyes can't tell. I would prefer to return it but if not, do you think the barrel is safe? I looks like someone shot it but did a poor job of cleaning it. BTW this was found in the first 4 hours of recieving it. Also is there any advise on removing the marks in the bore......

 

[Robby]

Shoeless, get some scotchbrite and run it up and down the bore until your arm gets tired, put a new one on and a little oil and do it some more, dry it out real good and have another look. You will be surprised at how much that will clean it up.
I hope it all works out for you. I really detest seeing someone get taken advantage of, especially on a forum like this! :cursing:
Robby

 

[Shoeless]

I'm going over to friends at a gun shop to get thier opinion of the bore. I denied his $250 offer and asked Paypal for a full refund and will ship it back. The seller wanted me to send money as a gift but I said no deal. Paypal has protection so I think I will be OK. I wish I had bought from a regular forum poster as I would have trusted them. A man's word is everything to me.....

 

[M. De Land]

If you can get a bore scope it will do the first 17-18 inches then the breech plug would have to be removed to get the other end. It's the only way I know off to really get a look at whats going on. Looking at an angle down a bore doesn't really tell much. You of course wouldn't want to remove the plug on this gun but a look see down from the muzzle would probably tell you all you need to know.
It can be hand lapped with poured lead slugs starting at about 240 grit and taken up to 320 and finished up with 400. It doesn't do any good to go higher from my experience lapping barrels. It will take the tops off pits, level the bore and work in some choke if one wants.MD

 

[Rifleman1776]

You have a three (3) day inspection time period to check out the rifle

Where is that written? Does TMF have that rule?
Lot of questions here. The seller did say in new condition but he did not say "new". That really isn't splitting hairs. I used to file a lot of small claims complaints and have heard judges, many times, say where someone is selling a used item that sales "puff" was to be expected and is not enough to win a claim against the seller.
An item is worth only what a seller is willing to pay. Because you might have seen one for less after the fact is only unfortunate for you. Methinks you paid not only for a gun but lessons in buying. Sorry, methinks you are stuck.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

To some folks like new includes a shiney year old car with 10,000 miles. To other folks that same car is 10% wore out.

I have never been disappointed by a purchase from an on-line auction because I assume their is puffing and expect some issues. Frankly I don't expect a black powder gun to be spotless.

off and on, I represented used car dealers for the past thirty years. Some folks expect a million mile guarantee on an "as is" Yugo. Then there are those who will find all manner of things wrong, when they get cold feet about a purchase.

I'm not sure where the three day inspection right idea came from. Is it in the rules for listing sales. Was it part of the contract agreement between seller and buyer? At least twice a year a buyer wants to return a used car under his "three day right of rescission." When I ask, what gives them this right, they claim it is a law. What law? Then I am told I must be an idiot because I don't know that all consumers get three days to return items. I have offered $500 for a copy of this "consumer law" that applies to their contract. No body got the money yet. In Maryland, the three day right of rescission only applied to door to door installment sales. So it would only apply to cars, if the dealer came to your street and knocked on doors to sell a car AND there was loan for the purchase price. Your state may be different, but where did the contract take place, the seller's state or the buyer's state? Is there a difference from one state to the other?

As I recall, we get such a dispute here about once a year.

Was it a mutual or unilateral mistake as to condition? What is expected in the gun trading business?

 

[Shoeless]

The words were "literaly brand new,unfired". If he had said used in good condition then that would be up to intepretation. He has offered $250.00 refund but Paypal will make him refund all and I will return it. I am taking it to the gunsmith this weekend and if he says the bore is all right then I might consider keeping it. You have to understand the only reason I bought it was because he said it was new. I was not in the market at this time for anymore guns really new or used. He trying to tell me the thick fouling in the breech and rust in the barrel is from Pedersoli proofing the musket. This thing looks just like a well used/not well maintained musket.Nothing more,nothing less.........

 

[satwel]

The condition of the frizzen should tell you how much the musket has been fired. Is it scored and/or gouged from being fired? A few streaks will occur during testing at the factory.

 

[Elnathan]

Literally brand new and new are not the same are they?

Why yes, they are the same.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literal[1]?show=0&t=1363391330

(yeah, I know that the word is commonly used incorrectly to mean the exact opposite these days. Stupid.)

 

[Black Jack]

I thnk a good rule to follow on a forum like this is to purchase from someone with a certain number of previous posts, someone with a history on the forum. This should weed out those who only come here to list and sell something. You don't know anything about these people. Some of the ads I've read have descriptions that indicate the writer is someone who knows very little about muzzleloaders and may very well be something like an estate liquidator. pawn shop operator, or who knows what. That's not necessarily bad, but caveat emptor.

 

[zerb]

Don't know if many of you purchase items you can't see based on the sellers opinion. When it comes to money, to many people will lie to gain it. When it comes to buying a flintlock or any firearm for that matter. I have to see it in hand before making the decision to buy. There are to many things that can be wrong, that you can't see from a picture.

 

[yakimaman]

I too bought from an individual and I believe it was the same. Here is a quote from an email we exchanged regarding some other guns he had:

"Lastly I have a very very
> nice, unfired Pedersoli 1777 Charleville"

As you can see, he said "very, very nice, unfired" condition - not used or corroded condition. The single shot pistol I bought has a lot of rust at the breech end of the bbl, the bore is rough there, there is also a rusty fingerprint on the bbl and a small corrosion pitted area near the muzzle. Not what was advertised. I can probably sell it at a gunshow and get my money back but any knowledgable BP shooter is going to run a patch down the bore and will find that rough spot in about 2 seconds. I haven't shot it, might not, rusty bore may not affect accuracy, or it may well. It's a duelling pistol - should be very accurate. who knows. But the man with the musket got hoodwinked and so did I - caveat emptor for sure with this seller.

 

[Shoeless]

Latest update, The bore has slight marks in it so the gunsmith said it was safe but when I told him the seller stated "literaly brand new/unfired" he rolled his eyes and said "no way". But if I get a refund of $250 the deal would be alright at $650.00. I talked to TOW and he agreed the $600-$700 would be reasonable. The seller was suppose to refund Monday but did not.Paypal has the funds and is working on the seller to complete transaction and I still have 40 days to dipute my credit card if need be but don't want to go that route.......

 

[Shoeless]

Ok,Paypal came through and resolved the issue and I paid $650 for the musket which I think was a fair price given the misleading condition description. I am now on task of cleaning it up...

 

[Many Klatch]

I have seen quite a few Pedersoli Brown Bess go for $750 to $800 in well-used condition. At $650 you did alright.

Many Klatch

 

[joe4702]

 

[lonehorseman]

Be sure to thank the seller. He made things right, which is much to HIS credit. I sell lots of guns online, and I NEVER reduce the price after a sale. I allow returns and guarantee 100% satisfaction , but I don't negotiate at that point. YOU did well for a used gun.

 

There's the old phrase that comes to mind, buyer beware (caveat emptor.)