Original Hawken

[Brent]

The photo attached is of an original Hawken that was at auction a few years ago. Another like it resides in the Cody Museum. I believe they may be the only two Hawkens with pistol grips. This one was, apparently, a target rifle, judging from the tang fitting for a lollipop style of sight.

I'd be interested if anyone has other photos of this rifle or the other pistol grip Hawken, and I would be VERY interested if someone was shaping a stock blank like this. I think this will be my next winter project.

 

[Herb]

Brent, go to Jim Gordon's museum in Glorieta, NM. I was there in August. He has probably two dozen original Hawkens and that many Lemans, plus many other original longrifles. Here is a pistol grip Hawken, the bottom one.

The label reads "RARE S.Hakwen, St.Louis pistol grip, one of only 3 known."

Gordon privately printed a set of three books, "Great Gunmakers for the Early West", set weighs 14 pounds and sells for $295. Volume III, Western U.S., has 7 color photos of the Buffalo Bill Historical Center pistol grip Hawken. It used to be on their web site, but I'm not sure if that is still up. Also see R.L. Wilson's "The PeaceMakers, page 49, a tiny photo of a PG Hawken. Also see Wilson's "Steel Canvas", page 85, probably the same PG Hawken, but larger photo.

Jim Gordon will let you handle and photograph these rifles. He also has Mariano Modena's Hawken and Tom Tobin's Hawken.

 

[Dphar]

This is another rifle I would like to make. But I have barrels for four other projects now and one is pretty complex and I only have a barest start.


There is a photo of a PG Hawken with a percussion type schuetzen tang sight, which they appear to be made for, at pg 85 of "Steel Canvas". Its not a really useful pic but it does show the sight and that its certainly not the rifle in Bairds book which is the one you have pictured.
I believe the rifle with the tang sight was part of the William Locke collection and is pictured on pg 493 of "The William Locke Collection" But it might not be the same rifle. The "Steel Canvas" rifle appears to have more curl in the stock but the Locke photo is not good enough to make a decision on and its the lock side of the rifle while the other is the cheek side.
I think the photos you have in this thread are of the rifle in the Cody Museum.
So right now I have images of at least 2 PG Hawken rifles.

Dan

 

[Herb]

Brent's photos of this Hawken are not the same as the one in Gordon's book, the Buffalo Bill HC Hawken. Here is another Pistol Grip Hawken, built by a former employee of the old Green River Rifle Works. I took these photos last March, but can't remember his name. He built this rifle because he liked the looks of it, whittled out his own stock.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Very good photos, all of them. The tang sight does not necessarily indicate a target rifle, by the tail end of the ML era many buffalo hunters were using tang sights. There is a photo of Liver Eatin' Johnson holding a Hawken with that same base for a tang sight. Johnson was a pretty "gun savvy" fellow, he even had a Spencer repeater rebuilt in Hawken style.

 

[2Barrel]

I,ve always loved Hawken rifles. That pistol grip one sure is neat. Thanks for sharing the pics.

 

[Brent]

Herb, thanks so much for your photo. Now I have to find that place in New Mexico. I go to Raton every year, so maybe I can track this down and get a drawing or three.

I think the rifle is beautiful and really pretty functional. And I want a solid, simple, and totally comfortable percussion deer rifle. I think building one on these lines might be just the ticket.

I will probably have to hack my own stock out of my own stick of wood. I have some pretty plain jane walnut that would be just perfect for this job, though the PG Hawkens all appear to be maple, I think walnut will do nicely for what I want.

Good to know there is a third such rifle. Now I have to make one.

Brent

 

[Brent]

Herb,
Do you have any more info on Jim Gordon's museum? I can't find anything on the web. I would love to call or email him and find an address. I found the town. It looks doable.

Thanks,
Brent

 

[Herb]

He is Jim Gordon, 808 Paseo de la Cuma, Sante Fe, NM 87501. Phone number (505) 982-9667. He is not into computers, so no web site or E-mail. You have to call him to arrange a time to visit his museum, which is in an old school house. You will see more original ML rifles here than in the Davis Gun Museum, Claremore, OK, or the Museum of the Fur Trade, Chadron, NE. And you can handle the guns.

 

[Bill Hall]

Thanks Herb, I was thinking about sending you a pm to get that info. I'm only about 2 hours away from Glorieta and I had no idea that museum existed. Heck, I used to work in Sante Fe and I never even heard of that street. I may plan a trip out there during winter break and take one, or all of my three daughters.

We used to have reenactments in Glorieta back in the 70's, but there wasn't much there at that time. Now, I understand there's a huge Babtist convention center where we used to have our encampment. Bill

 

[Herb]

The museum is chock full of western items, saddles, clothing, books, firearms, etc. Girls would find lots of interesting things here. My wife enjoyed a room devoted to the conquistadores, the first Spanish exlorers in NM. Also some furniture.

 

[odean]

I was at the Cody Museum two weeks ago and saw John "Liver Eating" Johnson's Hawkin and it too had the pistol grip and it looked to be in rather good shape. They also had his Bowie knife and pistol. If someone has never been to the museum they need to go because aside from cartridge firearms there are hundreds of mzzle loading rifles, shotguns and handguns there for the viewer to drool over. Truely an awsome place to visit. Oscar/NC

 

[Herb]

The pistol grip Hawken pictured in Gordon's book on page 391 is in the Buffalo Bill HC, but he does not say who owned it. He also pictures Liver Eating Johnson's rifle on page 375 of his book, and it does not have a PG. It is a very nice Hawken, looks like Bridger's rifle. The PG Hawken in his museum in Glorieta, NM is not the one in the BBHC. I have not yet been to the BBHC in Cody, but I sure want to get up there.

 

[Blackfoot]

Brent, go to Jim Gordon's museum in Glorieta, NM. I was there in August. He has probably two dozen original Hawkens and that many Lemans, plus many other original longrifles. Here is a pistol grip Hawken, the bottom one.

The label reads "RARE S.Hakwen, St.Louis pistol grip, one of only 3 known."

Gordon privately printed a set of three books, "Great Gunmakers for the Early West", set weighs 14 pounds and sells for $295. Volume III, Western U.S., has 7 color photos of the Buffalo Bill Historical Center pistol grip Hawken. It used to be on their web site, but I'm not sure if that is still up. Also see R.L. Wilson's "The PeaceMakers, page 49, a tiny photo of a PG Hawken. Also see Wilson's "Steel Canvas", page 85, probably the same PG Hawken, but larger photo.

Jim Gordon will let you handle and photograph these rifles. He also has Mariano Modena's Hawken and Tom Tobin's Hawken.

Those two Hawkens look to be the same rifle dont they?

 

[Brent]

Herb,
Thanks very much . I'll be calling him in the very near future.

Brent

 

[Herb]

Blackfoot, I think you are right. The scar on the lock side of the stock and the dark grain stripe are the same. Good eye.

 

[OB OBrien]

[edited quote=Brent]The photo attached is of an original Hawken that was at auction a few years ago. I would be VERY interested if someone was shaping a stock blank like this. I think this will be my next winter project.][/quote]

Brent, I agree a nice looking rifle and I too would like to have one with a pistol grip. If anyone knows someone who could make one for me I would really appreciate it. Let me know please. Thanks
OB

 

[Herb]

OB, scroll up to my first post with the rack of Hawkens. To the right is the Facebook sidebar. Drag the slider down about 3/5 of the way to Lynn shooting a left handed flintlock. She is Neill Fields wife, and he built her rifle and more than 400 other ML firearms. He is in the next picture down in a green coat with a brass barreled flintlock he built. Left click on it and then on "Go to Facebook.com" above to enlarge the photo. He builds for a living and usually saws his stocks from blanks. He has built double barreled flint shotguns, African black powder cartridge doubles, Hawkens for a living at the old Green River Rifle Works and in Australia, and many styles of original flintlock or caplock longrifles and pistols. You can Google "Neill Fields". You might call him at 435-790-1348 anytime and discuss your needs with him. He is a very skilled artisan and an honorable person and works very fast. Tell him Herb suggested you call.

 

[roger sells]

You might check the Cody Museum web page. They have several original hawkens on display and they are all documented with photo's on their web page in several views. Search for Hawken rifles an plains rifles to see the photographs. I looked at an original pistol grip on display when I went out West on vacation a few years ago, but can't remember which location it was at. I got to look at 9 original rifles during the trip. If you know someone who has an old Hawken Shop catalog, when Art Russel owned it in St. Louis, it has some photographs of one in it. I am not aware of anyone who copies this rifle, but there are several folks that build Hawken rifles that could do the job.
Roger Sells

 

[Brent]

I don't seem to have the knack for surfing the Cody museum website. I can't find ANY Hawken on their webpages, much less THE Hawken.

Brent