Original Remington Zouave loads

[RonK]

Did a few shots at 50 mtr indoor.
RCBS 500 grain minie sized .580, 70 grains Swiss 2F. The shot rightside down was a test cause I shoot a few in one hole and didn’t see it right thats why I aimed on a different spot.

Ron

 

[da172]

Did a few shots at 50 mtr indoor.
RCBS 500 grain minie sized .580, 70 grains Swiss 2F. The shot rightside down was a test cause I shoot a few in one hole and didn’t see it right thats why I aimed on a different spot.

Ron

View attachment 163768

Good shooting Ron.
I have just bought an original Zouave rifle however I am a bit disappointed with the bore. The rifling (7 grooves) is very shallow and somehow "polygonal". There is a lot of pitting few inches from the bottom plug. Not sure if I will be able to make it shoot accurately.
Grateful if you could post few pictures of original rifle rifling for comparison.
Another question is regarding the sights - how do you align them? They are rather peculiar and I find them difficult to aim. Perhaps I am doing it wrong.

 

[dave951]

Good shooting Ron.
I have just bought an original Zouave rifle however I am a bit disappointed with the bore. The rifling (7 grooves) is very shallow and somehow "polygonal". There is a lot of pitting few inches from the bottom plug. Not sure if I will be able to make it shoot accurately.
Grateful if you could post few pictures of original rifle rifling for comparison.
Another question is regarding the sights - how do you align them? They are rather peculiar and I find them difficult to aim. Perhaps I am doing it wrong.

The rifling (if unmodified) is very shallow and that is by design.

There is no method to "realign" the sights as they are military from the period again, if unmodified. Also, expect the gun to shoot high compared to our modern expectations. That was also by design from the period.

We shoot these guns in competition in the North South Skirmish Association here in the US. I just returned from our National competition last weekend. There's no other competition in the world like ours that balances speed and accuracy and is shot as a team against other teams.

The "fog of war" frequently pays our National range a visit. Note this is position 64 of 70 and each position will hold an 8 man team and each position is occupied during an event (part of a match). Each match has 5 events and there are usually 3 Relays. A Relay is the next group of teams shooting the same event. Yeah, we burn a lot of black powder and there are more than a couple "Zouaves" out on the line. My son shot one on our team last weekend and he hammered his share of targets.

 

[da172]

The rifling (if unmodified) is very shallow and that is by design.

There is no method to "realign" the sights as they are military from the period again, if unmodified. Also, expect the gun to shoot high compared to our modern expectations. That was also by design from the period.

We shoot these guns in competition in the North South Skirmish Association here in the US. I just returned from our National competition last weekend. There's no other competition in the world like ours that balances speed and accuracy and is shot as a team against other teams.

View attachment 167544

The "fog of war" frequently pays our National range a visit. Note this is position 64 of 70 and each position will hold an 8 man team and each position is occupied during an event (part of a match). Each match has 5 events and there are usually 3 Relays. A Relay is the next group of teams shooting the same event. Yeah, we burn a lot of black powder and there are more than a couple "Zouaves" out on the line. My son shot one on our team last weekend and he hammered his share of targets.
View attachment 167545

Thanks Dave,

Sound like you are having a lot of fun and quite good shooting.

Attaching few pics of the muzzle of mine Zouave - does the rifling look OK? It strangely "flares out" just before the crown.

Regarding the sights - do you align the front sight top with the top of the rear sight or using the small notch in the notch? I find it quite difficult to aim with this sights.

 

[satwel]

I've had good results lubing my minies with a 50/50 combination of bee's wax and mutton tallow. I shoot them with 45 grains of 3F from a pattern 1858 Enfield two bander and a Parker Hale pattern 1861 musketoon. I ordered the mutton tallow from Amazon.com.

 

[RonK]

Good shooting Ron.
I have just bought an original Zouave rifle however I am a bit disappointed with the bore. The rifling (7 grooves) is very shallow and somehow "polygonal". There is a lot of pitting few inches from the bottom plug. Not sure if I will be able to make it shoot accurately.
Grateful if you could post few pictures of original rifle rifling for comparison.
Another question is regarding the sights - how do you align them? They are rather peculiar and I find them difficult to aim. Perhaps I am doing it wrong.

Hi DA172,

Both of mine original Zouave’s having a new like bore, they are in exceptional condition. The rifling is shallow that’s the design. I have no problem with the sights, you need to get used to it. I use the small notch.
The Zouave which I use for shooting (I am a collector too) shoot 18 cm ( 6 inch) height at 50 mtr.
I use RCBS 500 grains minies and found out that with 80 grain Swiss 2FF it shoots perfect.
I ordered a week ago by Titan Reloading a Lee 578-478 mold these monies are 0.003” larger in diameter which I think is better for original Zouaves.

Ron

 

[da172]

Hi Ron,
Thanks for your reply. I have tried few different minie bullets so far and noticed the ones siezed to .581 fit the muzzle tight however few inches down the bore they "become" loose. Do the origginal Zouaves have progressive rifling depth? It seem thet the bore of mine is tighter towards the muzzle. So far I was not able to make tight groups - perhaps I need to increase the powder charge. So far I tried up to 56 grains 3F and 2F polish Zloty Stok black powder which is less energetic then the Swiss. I have replaced the nipple to the modern one with smaller hole (0.7mm) to avoid blowback.

 

[TFoley]

Hi DA172,

Both of mine original Zouave’s having a new like bore, they are in exceptional condition. The rifling is shallow that’s the design. I have no problem with the sights, you need to get used to it. I use the small notch.
The Zouave which I use for shooting (I am a collector too) shoot 18 cm ( 6 inch) height at 50 mtr.
I use RCBS 500 grains minies and found out that with 80 grain Swiss 2FF it shoots perfect.
I ordered a week ago by Titan Reloading a Lee 578-478 mold these monies are 0.003” larger in diameter which I think is better for original Zouaves.

Ron

Sir, you are beating yourself to death with an 80gr load, no matter that it shoots well - THAT is the real surprise for me. The Union Army service charge, one that was made up by the tens of millions was just 60gr of whatever powder they were using. By way of comparison the British cartridge, used initially by the Confederate forces, was 2 1/2 drams - as near to 68gr as makes no odds.

 

[RonK]

Hi Ron,
Thanks for your reply. I have tried few different minie bullets so far and noticed the ones siezed to .581 fit the muzzle tight however few inches down the bore they "become" loose. Do the origginal Zouaves have progressive rifling depth? It seem thet the bore of mine is tighter towards the muzzle. So far I was not able to make tight groups - perhaps I need to increase the powder charge. So far I tried up to 56 grains 3F and 2F polish Zloty Stok black powder which is less energetic then the Swiss. I have replaced the nipple to the modern one with smaller hole (0.7mm) to avoid blowback.View attachment 170133

Hi Da,
I used the RCBS minies they are .575 but come out the mold in .578 they are too small in diameter cause the original Zouaves are .581 to .583 that’s why I use lots of powder to get the skirt fully expand.
I received an Lee oversized minie mold .578 they come out the mold in .581 Next week I going to test them with different loads.

Ron

 

[RonK]

Sir, you are beating yourself to death with an 80gr load, no matter that it shoots well - THAT is the real surprise for me. The Union Army service charge, one that was made up by the tens of millions was just 60gr of whatever powder they were using. By way of comparison the British cartridge, used initially by the Confederate forces, was 2 1/2 drams - as near to 68gr as makes no odds.

Probably the original minies were having thinner skirts. With 60 grains it doesn’t work.
With 80 grains it shoots perfect.

Ron

 

[TFoley]

Probably the original minies were having thinner skirts. With 60 grains it doesn’t work.
With 80 grains it shoots perfect.

Ron

'shrug.' Use the correct Minié bullets and they WILL work. A million Union and Confederate soldiers can't ALL have gotten it wrong.

 

[1861 Springfield]

SPG is for black powder cartridges and doesn't work well with minies. Make up a bit of beeswax/lard lube (NOT paraffin) and dip the rings only.

thats odd...works amazing for me.

 

[da172]

Hi Guys,
I have tried patched RB (.575) in my Remington 1863 as advised by a stranger and was positively surprised with the groups shot at 50m with three diffrent amounts of powder. 3 groups by 5 shots, the first preceeded by a fouling shot, all merged in one ragged hole.

My Zouave has 7 grooves rifling and I was told it was designed for the patched RB. Is that historically correct?
Can anyone recommend some good reading on the original Zouave rifles - many thanks in advance.

 

[bang]

My Zouave bore is more akin to a .577. A .575 very lightly sized will easily thumb press in. On top of 65 grains shoots very well. 60 is the military standard charge. My Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter accepts the same.
It needs a very close fit and just enough charge to push the skirt out to bore but no more. Too much charge and the skirt will flare out when it leaves the muzzle and cause excessive drag and walk.

 

[RonK]

Hi Guys,
I have tried patched RB (.575) in my Remington 1863 as advised by a stranger and was positively surprised with the groups shot at 50m with three diffrent amounts of powder. 3 groups by 5 shots, the first preceeded by a fouling shot, all merged in one ragged hole.View attachment 171257View attachment 171258View attachment 171259
My Zouave has 7 grooves rifling and I was told it was designed for the patched RB. Is that historically correct?
Can anyone recommend some good reading on the original Zouave rifles - many thanks in advance.

Hi Da,
Nice groups.
Zouave rifles were made for Minieballs.
There are not so many books with proper info regarding these rifles.

Best,

Ron

 

[RonK]

My Zouave bore is more akin to a .577. A .575 very lightly sized will easily thumb press in. On top of 65 grains shoots very well. 60 is the military standard charge. My Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter accepts the same.
It needs a very close fit and just enough charge to push the skirt out to bore but no more. Too much charge and the skirt will flare out when it leaves the muzzle and cause excessive drag and walk.

Is that a replica or original Zouave?
Cause all three of mine originals measure .5815

Best,

Ron