original style combustibles my way

[Enfieldguy]

I've been rolling combustible revolver cartridges since I was 10 or 11. I used cig paper for many years before I made the jump to making my own nitrated paper. Cig paper is actually rice paper that's been treated with a flame retardant and it never fully combusts in the chamber. It also makes for a rather fragile cartridge. Original cartridges were made from rag(linen) paper. I use the Bienfang 13.5# 100% linen paper. I get powered potassium nitrate online. I'll heat up a quart of distilled water and add the nitrate until no more will dissolve. I then pour it into a metal broiling pan I got for a dollar at a thrift store. Photographic developing trays work good too. I'll cut the paper to pan size and then soak it in the solution for at least 8 hours. Then I'll remove it from the solution and let it air dry on a wire baking rack. It burns very briskly and completely. At most it may leave behind a very fine black ash which will disintegrate when you blow on it. It also makes a sturdier cartridge that will survive a drop from chest height. I roll them on tapered dowel rod and cut them so they replicate the original two-piece tube design. I found a flat cone online calculator that gives me the mouth and base diameter angles and body taper. I'm running 16grs in the .36's and 24grs for the .44's. The heeled conical bullets are from 'Era's Gone Bullet Molds'.

 

[ZUG]

Good info -- why don't you attach pictures of your process?
I use hair curling paper.

 

[rodwha]

I have used the American Spirits papers which are made from flax. They don’t always completely combust and at first I would clear the little shards from the chambers before reloading but then decided to see if it might become an issue. Granted I ran out of cartridges but I had no issues with the 3 cylinders worth of shooting.

And then I bought stump remover and did as you. I didn’t care for the flaking of the dried PN and lost interest with the increased tedium of involvement. I certainly like the idea of them completely being consumed but I’m not sure if I care enough.

Despite how thin these papers are they appear to be rather strong. Having dropped one on the floor from maybe waist height it didn’t break.

Another vote for pics or a video!

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Do you folks use lube on the bullets or atop them once seated?

 

[rodwha]

I lube the grooves and it’s has worked to help hold it in the paper cartridge as well (Gatofeo’s #1).

Another fellow uses lube cookies in his with a cardboard overpowder card.

 

[Enfieldguy]

I'm not very tech computer savvy and haven't a clue how to use a digital camera much less post pics. I still shoot 35mm film. But I'm not using stump remover. I found powdered PN online for just a few dollars a pound. My rounds are lubed before loading just like the originals. I use a 8:1 beeswax/mutton tallow mix like mentioned in the period Ordnance manuals. I have a mini crock pot I found at a Goodwill store I melt the lube in. I line the pot with aluminum foil so after it cools back into a solid mass I store them in plastic bags. After gluing the bullet in place I carefully dip it into the lube up to the edge of the paper. It cools and solidifies almost instantly. This is the way they were lubed back then before packaging. I package the finished rounds in home-made 6-round chipboard packets that fit in a regulation pistol belt pouch. 7 percussion caps are also included in each packet. Since I shoot more .36 I've also constructed a custom Naval-inspired pouch that holds 6 packets. With both pouches on the belt I have 52 rounds at the ready.

 

[necchi]

I get powered potassium nitrate online. I'll heat up a quart of distilled water and add the nitrate until no more will dissolve

:haha: Wow! A saturated solution of KNO would make 3 layer corrugated cardboard turn to ash!
Good info friend.
Where do you find Mutton Tallow?

 

[Enfieldguy]

I found it online. Just google 'mutton tallow' and look for the best price. WalMart is supposed to have it in the skin care section but I've never found it physically in any of the stores. Unlike any other rendered fats, it has an extremely long shelf life and won't go rancid like beef or pork. The old-timers figured out all this over 150 years ago. We just have to interpret it into today's understandings. I even use waterglass to attach the bullets to the body.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Mutton’s tallow also has a pleasing, meaty odor. It’s really good stuff!!

 

[Enfieldguy]

Yes, it does have a pleasant smell. :v

 

[William P Sepessy]

Thanks for the description of your process. Always interested to see how others have approached making combustible cartridges and the amount of success they enjoy. I finally settled on making them without any lead projectile attached--just a powder "packet". I shoot 51 and 61 Navies(traditional 36 cal.) at Cowboy matches frequently and there is not a lot of room between the cylinder face and barrel for an entire cartridge--at least for my clumsy fingers!

 

[Enfieldguy]

The cartridges are a tapered cone which allows the shooter to insert them easier. There are a hundred ways to make a combustible but only a few to do it correctly. I've been making them for 40 years. I'm a real stickler for authenticity and I feel taking that extra effort is totally worth it to get the feel for how they worked back then. Combustible cartridges were commercially manufactured up until the turn of the century.

 

[bigted]

At this current time i make my cartridges like this,

Made a stick that tapers as a mold to wrap around.
I take top cig papers and roll em around the tapered stick leaving about half inch past the narrow end and after licking the gummed edge i stick it to itself along the stick, then another lick on that half inch flap and fold it over and slightly up the stick, making a tapered flat bottom cartridge ready for loading.
I place these sleeves in a 9MM plastic tray to hold em uprite for loading.
Next I load 20 grains 3Fg Old E powder in each one.
Next i drop a .375 ball in each cartridge.
Now i lift one at a time out and twist the remaining paper tightly over the ball snugging them nice n tight against the powder.
I melt SPG lube in a shallow saucer, now I dip the cartridge ball end so the lube coats the entire ball and twisted paper.
After they harden overnight, i clip the twisted paper close to the ball leaving a lubed paper cartridge ready to load and shoot.
Before i lubed them i loaded and shot 50 some cartridges in a row with nothing lube wise except for ballistol on the arbor. I wiped the cylinder face after every 4 or 5 cylinder fulls, but otherwise no lube, no nitrated paper and no smoldering paper bits to ignite the the next cylinder full.

I did blow down the bore after each 6 rounds fired. These 50 some all went into a 5 inch circle at 30 yards off the bench.

Cleanup was almost as easy as using lube over the cylinder face. There was bits of paper in each cylinder after this test but nothing hindered the shooting except the occasional cap thing. Gotta do another test with lubed balls.

Already gave up on conicals as the ball seriously out classes them accuracy wise. Accuracy is my goal along with fast repeatability.

Gotta try the nitrated papers tho. Sounds great. Keep us posted as there are many interested in your quest.

 

[Enfieldguy]

For years I used round ball because a historically correct conical was impossible to find. Then last year Eras Gone Bullet molds brought some correct conical molds to the market and it really invigorated by C&B revolver shooting. I was even a beta tester when Mark was finalizing the .44 design. I still have a plastic 3-D printed test slug in my collection. Do try the nitrated paper. It burns better then cig paper and the round is a lot more sturdier. The cig paper is rice paper that has been treated with a flame retardant so the cigarette doesn't burn too fast. But to fully appreciate the nitrated method, you must use 100% linen paper. Nitrating modern wood pulp paper just isn't as good. It will leave un-burnt shards behind in the chamber. It is also extremely fragile when you lift it out of the solution tray. Linen paper is also historically correct. The linen paper consumes itself nearly completely and at most may leave behind a very fine ash.

 

[longcruise]

When these are loaded, do you break the bottom of the cartridge to expose the powder for ignition?

 

[Enfieldguy]

No need to. The fire jet from the cap burns right through the base with no problems. The charge igniting then consumes to paper body. Being soaked in potassium nitrate it burns very cleanly and completely. At most there may be some very fine black ash. Linen paper works better then wood pulp paper. Linen paper is what was used back then. Wood pulp paper is a 20th century thing.

 

[crockett]

It both burns through and busts through. The explosion of the cap ruptures the base of the cartridge so you don't need to tear open the base to expose the powder. Some of Colt's original cartridges used very thin tin foil from Germany. The idea of the tin was it would not hold an ember. I tried the foil on candies and I got about 50% combustion. (Fired half the time). The tin stays in the chamber and after 3 or 4 rounds you start the next round and can't get it all the way down, now the bullet is sticking out the cylinder end and you can't rotate the cylinder- have to take the barrel off. That's why Colt started looking for material that would completely burn up.
I pretty much do it as stated; I made a tapered dowel, wrap cigarette paper around it and use a glue stick to seal the sides. I have a tab or "trapdoor" at the bottom that gets folded up around the sides (still on the mandrel) and stick-glued. I then take off the paper shell, fill in 17 gr. ffg and insert the bullet. The gummed edge on the cigarette paper is on the top inside. I lick the edge and it glues to the bullet.
They are fragile and need to be packed well.

 

[Enfieldguy]

I used cigarette paper for years with mixed results. The problem with cig paper, actually rice paper, is that it is treated with a fire retardant. It controls the rate of burn when rolled into a cigarette. And as you have mentioned, cartridges made from it are very fragile. Making them from wood pulp paper gives them strength but still has the combustion issues, even when nitrated. And neither are historically correct. The originals were made from the nitrated rag paper. I have dropped them from chest height and them stay together. Try the nitrated rag paper some time. You'll never go back to cig paper.

 

[thomas]

Where do you find rag paper?

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi,
I have made paper cartridges from paper towel.
It absorbs the potassium nitrate solution very well, is strong enough.
I must admit that I have made these cartridges for shot gun / fowler use only.
There are no embers remaining in the barrel, and very few if any on the ground.
When made with card over powder, wad under shot, and card over shot makes for quick and fast reloads.
When loading it shears off the paper at the wads but still let you seat the shot without spilling.
The paper towel soaked with potassium nitrate solution should work very well with pistol loads as well.
Fred