original wads!!

[buck1]

I have read alot of stories and books that talk about hunting small game and foul with smooth bore guns back in the early to mid 1700's but I've never read anything about thier loads ie. shot size and amount,or the wads they used,or the material they were made from!! Does anyone on here know factual information on this {not just an educated guess} if so I sure would like to know and possibly try it!
Thanks alot Buck! :v

 

[paulvallandigham]

In all the reading I have done, I have never read a definitive discussion about wads in original, 18th century, and earlier guns. There are some vague references to wadding in biographies and stories about Boone, The Leather Stocking stories- written in the early 19th century and were a very romanticized look back at colonial life-- and Simon Girty and others, but NO period piece.

How many stories have you read describing how to shave, or how to tie a bow in your shoelaces? My point is that at the time, these things were treated as common knowledge, and no one bothered to write down something " Everyone " already knew.


You as a good question. It has been asked many times, and has caused many people to scour historical references in search of an answer. There is one line of evidence based on Military records indicating how Military ammo was loaded. Its not a stretch to think that some civilians used the same methods in loading their fowlers, muskets, and early rifles. However, American Colonists lived far from supply sources, and could only carry a limited amount of gear and equipment or supplies with them over the Appalachians to explore Kentucky, and Ohio. Western New York was a far distance from ready supply before the French and Indian war, as far as that goes. That would indicate that settlers " Made do " just like they did with all other things, using what was at hand.

Later references, only because they are made so casually, suggest( your " guess" ) that they used leaves, leather from small animals trapped or killed with clubs, knives, spears, arrows, and occasionally gunshots, as patching, and they used both Hornet's nests and Wasp's nests as filler. In the South, some references indicate that tobacco leaves were crushed and used as fillers if they were not smoked. Cloth was probably the last thing use because it had to be imported from Europe until the 18th century, when a few mills began making linen here.

So, leave us our " Educated Guess" based on all that is known about what materials were and were not cheaply available at the time, comparing what was to the customary military loads of a particular era. :surrender: :hatsoff:

 

[buck1]

Hey I really appreciate the info,and what you said made alot of since. I didn't mean anything about the educated guess sorry, I was just hopeing maybe someone might have something someone else may have written down back then. Thanks again Buck

 

[Elnathan]

Old hat material, old saddle leather, tow, and card are all mentioned in British sources,I believe.

Advice from Mr. Aimwell
Pterylplegia

 

[Britsmoothy]

I remember reading an article from the 1830's about a gent who forgot his wadding and used his Times news paper to save the day, and he did well on it. I have read a poem someplace that makes referance to old saddle leather for wads.
I think Paul summed it up well and boy would it be nice to have the smell of B/P and tobbacco mixed together, a black cherry mix for me :grin:
Britsmoothy.

 

[roundball]

I have read alot of stories and books that talk about hunting small game and foul with smooth bore guns back in the early to mid 1700's but I've never read anything about thier loads ie. shot size and amount,or the wads they used,or the material they were made from!! Does anyone on here know factual information on this {not just an educated guess} if so I sure would like to know and possibly try it!
Thanks alot Buck! :v

Three that I've read about:

1) Hornet's nest material...I've personally tried it and it works perfectly;

2) A wad of Tow;

3) A wad of green leaves;

 

[Harddog]

One of the western mountain men wrote about being in a fight with Indians and said they were so close that he could see the blanket wads as they came out of the Indian's guns. I don't remember the whole story, but it was during a well known fight that occurred during or directly after one of the mountain rendezvous.

Randy Hedden

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Elnathan nailed it for you.
Those links are to PERIOD writings on loading and shooting a fowling piece.
I believe the saddle material was not from the leather but from the tow stuffing.
1727 for Pteryplegia and the Aimwell one from the 1760's

 

[paulvallandigham]

All these sources date from the 19th century. This is a later time, Where newspapers, blankets, and other substances were available even in the West.

Because Anthropology was not even a Science until the early 1800s, I can find NO authentic information about clothing worn by NDNZ living in the Illinois country prior to the arrival of French and English Explorers. A brief French reference indicates that the Indians that LaSalle, and Marquette found were either naked, or draping animal skins over their shoulders. I traveled to the Field Museum in Chicago, to see what they might have in their collection, and the few costumes on display, and, I was told, in the archives away from public viewing, showed French designed fabrics used for breechcloths, as being " Traditional Potawatomi Dress! "

I don't offer these facts as an excuse, but as a way for people to understand why we have much information about the life and living habits of Native Americans WEST of the Missippi River, but very little information about those living East of the Mississippi. There simply was no system of Science, much less museums, and Archives to collect such information, as the people living at the time saw no value in keeping that information.

Something as insignificant as wadding for guns- viewed as " trash " by today's standards- would not be on anyone's list of subjects that should be written about. We are constantly being amazed at the " Fines " being made in old collections, long forgotten, and often mislabeled, of artifacts that give new understanding to events that happened so long ago. Collections of works are still found almost daily that have never been catalogued or indexed, so that scholars might make used of the information contained there. One of the job of History researchers is to search out, and locate these " Treasurers", before they are throw away or destroyed.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I've used tow and wasp nest paper. They work very well. The trick is to not use very much of either of them so they don't blow through the shot as it leaves the muzzle. Tow does well at holding lube, too.

 

[pmwest]

Written in 1859, “The Shot-gun and Sporting Rifle, and the Dogs, Ponies, Ferrets, etc, used with them in the various kinds of Shooting and Trapping” (Google the title to find a full electronic copy of the book) references:

Two greased felt wads over the powder”¦one cardboard wad over the shot.

No other description is given to thickness, type of grease or type of felt. This was written in England and may not have a direct parallel to American practices. The publication date is a little later than mid 1700’s in the original question but it does include some information about loading, powder charges and weight of shot.

 

[nchawkeye]

Actually John White's pictures and notes from Roanoke Island and John Lawson's book from NC from 1700 share many insights into the life of the eastern natives...

 

[Britsmoothy]

Forgive me Russ T but what is tow :hmm:
Britsmoothy.

 

[Grenadier1758]

When you process flax to make linen, the waste material is a rather rough stingy pile of fibers. The waste material from making the linen thread is tow. Tow is a great cleaning material.

 

[pmwest]

Deanes’ Manual of Fire-Arms, also from an English perspective, has an extensive description of wadding for the muzzleloading shotgun.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

buck1,

Posted this before but it must not have taken.

Those links Elnathan provided are to PERIOD writings on loading and shooting a fowling piece.

I do believe the saddle material was not from the leather but possibly from the tow stuffing.



Excerpt from Pteryplegia or The Art of Shooting Flying by A B Markland 1727...

OUR SPORT almost at hand, we charge the Gun,
Whilst ev'ry well-bred Dog lies qui'tly down.
Charge not before. If over-Night the Piece
Stands loaded, in the Morn the Prime will hiss:
Nor Prime too full, else you will surely blame
The hanging fire and lose the pointed Aim.
Should I of This the obvious Reason tell:
The caking Pressure does the Flame repel
And Vulcan's lamed again by his own Steel.
Yet cleanse the Touch-hole first: A Partridge Wing
Most to the Field for that wise Purpose bring.
In Charging, next, good Workmen never fail
To ram the Powder well, but not the Ball;
One Third the well-turn'd Shot superior must
Arise, and overcome the nitrous Dust,
Which, dry'd and season'd in the Oven's Heat,
Has stood in close-mouthed Jarr the dampless Night.
Now search for Tow, and some old Saddle pierce:
No Wadding lies so close or drives so fierce.And here be mindful constantly to Arm
With Choice of Flints, a Turn-Screw and a Worm;
The accidental Chances of the Field
Will for such Implements Occasion yield.

Excerpt from Advice from Aimwell by Thomas Paige 1767

FRIENDLY
And what sort of wadding do you best approve of? I have heard some say that tow is best, others, cards stamped to fit the size of the bore.
AIMWELL
Tow, I think, is uncertain. If cards be used, the end of your rammer must be almost as broad as your barrel will admit of, to go down free, and quite flat at the end, to prevent the card from turning; and must be push'd down gradually, to give time for the air to pass, otherwise it will be troublesome. This is therefore not the quickest way. Old hat may be used in the same manner, which is rather better: and some say leather shreds are best. But I cannot yet find any thing better, or so ready as thin brown paper rubbed soft, and cut into pieces about one inch broad and two inches long; so that when it is once doubled, it is an inch square. I punch a small hole at the corner of each piece, put a sufficient quantity upon a key-ring, hang them into my button hole, and tear off one as I want it. This being doubled, put it into to the muzzle, and close the corners up about the rammer (the end of which ought to continue of the same bigness for at least half an inch, or rather somewhat smaller just at the end) and thrust the paper thus put into the barrel gently down upon the powder. Your rammer will come back without danger of drawing the paper back, and will leave it closed against the sides of the barrel like a half cartridge. Put in another in the same manner after the shot. When your gun is quite clean, it is necessary to put in a second wad after the shot, to prevent its getting loose.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I'm going to have to try that :hatsoff:
Britsmoothy.
Oh and thanks :hatsoff:

 

[buck1]

I just wonder has anyone tried 2oz. of shot and 123gr. of powder in a 20ga.? I bet that kicks like a mule! :shake: Although it may be effective.Buck

 

[paulvallandigham]

Never accept the written " Loads " from any period writings. The writer is rarely the actual shooter, and too much can be lost " Playing the telephone game". Just look at all the errors modern TV announcers( Journalists??) make describing guns today!

For those who don't know, TOW is Linen fibers, often the outer course fibers that are discarded when making linen cloth. Linen was the source of material for " lindsey-woolsey " fabric, as well as linen cloth. These were early cloths made in the colonies, and provide inexpensive sources for clothing because they thread could be spun on the simple spinning wheel, and the cloth made on hand-made looms. Finished cloth came from the mills in England, and for a time, Great Britain forbade colonists from building mills here, in order to protect that local industry, and keep the colonists dependent on Great Britain for important commodoties. Tobacco, and later, Cotton, was grown in the Southern Colonies, and sold almost entirely to buyers in Great Britain in exchange for cloth, and other needed items.

Jute is another course fiber still use to make inexpensive string and cordage. It can be unraveled and use as " TOW".

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

That would be a serious overload in a 10 gauge. I use no more than an ounce and an eighth in my 20 gauge over 70 grains of FFg. For heavier loads I go to my 14 gauge.