Ottoman Guns

[wulf1928]

Hi Wulf !!!! Great to hear from you again. Are you talking about the third gun - from the right ? By the way, I still have photos of your stuff in my library if you want me to post anything.

Cyten: If you are looking for a new stock blank, try to find one about 3 inches thick. You'll notice the rear of the butt stocks taper wider to at least 2 1/2" Tough to find wood that thick. That rear butt section I added started with a short, 8" long piece of European walnut that was 3 1/2" thick. Got it from Wayne Dunlap. He didn't have any stock that thick, so he glued two pieces together. Worked fine for just a rear section piece. You might measure the thickness of your original stock.

Rick

 

[wulf1928]

Hi Rick.....I was just asking what the lock only would sell for....yes the third from the right. I made this lock
a while back but never make the rest of the gun....Very much like the one shown except the top end of
the main spring is fastened different and the back round of the engraving isn't that deep. I do think I did
send you a picture of it.....anyway I was willing to sell it for a reasonable price.....

 

[cyten]

Ricky, my stock measures 2.25 across,I've found some blanks that are 2.5 but a little pricey. Still on the lookout. Here are some stocks in various forms of finished by some enthusiasts in Bulgaria.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Wulf. OK. That's an Algerian lock. Here is the pic of three of your locks, with the Algerian lock in the center........

 

[wulf1928]

Hi Wulf. OK. That's an Algerian lock. Here is the pic of three of your locks, with the Algerian lock in the center........View attachment 34810

 

[wulf1928]

That's it alright.....Your good. The two locks are on pistols but the center one is still not mounted. I pretty
well retired mostly because I completely ran out of stock. At this age I have a hard time concentrating on
details....patience running low. So i'm looking to sell off some stuff. So, what do you think this beast should sell for ?............................by the way, thank you for posting for me....

 

[rickystl]

Hi Wulf. Sending you a PM......

Rick

 

[TNGhost]

Great thread you guys. I have been following with admiration and interest.

Having been studying the Barbary Wars of late, I of course was interested in the personal weaponry used. There is some out there of course on the U.S. weaponry of the period (Artificer posted some great info in the War of 1812 subforum) and that used by their European mercenaries, but none I can find on the Ottoman supplied forces or the Arab mercenaries hired by Eaton. Do you all have any information in that regard? It certainly does seem that information and documentation on these magnificent firearms is neglected.

If you care to and have info to post you could use the thread I started in the 1812 forum so as not to derail your excellent conversation here. Thanks.

 

[wulf1928]

Hi Wulf. Sending you a PM......

Rick

That's right...I didn't think I was advertising...Sorry. I withdraw and will keep it. I can look at the bolt and try making the ring for you.

 

[Zonie]

TO ALL:

The forum rules permit asking other members what a fair price is for something but it is against the forum rules to try to sell something outside the classified ad sections.

When someone asks what the value of something is, assume they are only wanting to know the value. They are not trying to sell it at the moment they ask the question.

 

[rickystl]

OK !! Thanks Wulf. Be in touch soon. Rick

 

[rickystl]

Thanks for the clarification Zonie.

 

[rickystl]

Rudyard: Forgot to mention that I like that replacement Baltic style hammer on that Siler lock. A cool idea only a few of us can appreciate. LOL I do remember those first Siler locks requiring a more special size flint. I had a gun mounted with one back in the mid-1970's. It was still the best lock on the market at the time. Jim Chambers did in fact make the "fix" on the throw of the cock.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Hi Cyten

OK. Yes, my shishane measures 2.25" and my tufuk measures at 2.50" at the end of their butt stocks. I seen the big wall type guns at 3" plus. So it sounds like 2.50" stock should work for you. You might check around on pricing. The last stock blank I bought late last year was $300.00 +. But this was a piece of highly figured European walnut that required a 44" barrel. I've noticed that the blanks seem to take a big jump in price when you need something for a barrel longer than about 36". If you're willing to use straight grained maple, you can find some pretty reasonable priced stock blanks.

Thanks for the most recent pics of those stocks. Wonder where they find the different material for authentic type decoration ? What I have never been able to locate are those tiny 2/3mm brass pieces - especially with the green glass inside. Could be these decorative pieces were popular during the period but not really today.

Rick

 

[Rudyard]

We certainly seem to be arousing interest .Your Lock Wulf is good but it isn't Afghani other than matchlocks they seem to like to use English locks, East India company or best quality civilian locks . Not to say if they got these sorts( the Algerian) they wouldn't use them . One fowling piece of otherwise classic English style used an Algerian lock its illustrated in Neil & Backs' Great British Gun makers 1740 to 1790 'Even Indonesian barrels got mounted & certainly Turkish ones found favour in that market occasionally along with Spanish being at least quite normal until the later 18th c . A good barrels a good barrel whoever made it I recently stocked up a barrel by Alonzo Martinez it had survived in good order despite seeing service on a Gulf matchlock . He died in 1720 So its got to be over three hundred years old by my reckoning I wedded it to a full stock rather old fashioned style using an original Ketland & Co lock I know they are late 18 th with that style lock but not every customer wanted the top London fashions .Incidently Ketland locks are as good as youle find in my book . Original ones I mean but I'me sure Jim Chambers ones are right up there . Siler as was yes the Baltic cocks do give a suprizeingly long throw not that it will suit many guns. My little 290 cal rifle seems to shoot very well and the 15 grains means I can fire forever on a pound of powder ( appeals to my ingrained Yorkshire thrift ). Who ever made the Turkish guns Wulf shows is brilliant so heartening to learn such interest thrives even down to the brass borders to the rosettes ?.. Great stuff .
Regards Rudyard

 

[cyten]

These are so rare to find on the market and even so in contemporary photos, so I thought I'd share some I found recently

 

[rickystl]

Thanks Cyten for posting these pics. Notice the fourth photo down from the top shows an 1870's Martini-Henry - and two others still carrying miquelet/flintlocks.
Would likely be a common site even as late as the 1880's.

Rick

 

[cyten]

Thanks Cyten for posting these pics. Notice the fourth photo down from the top shows an 1870's Martini-Henry - and two others still carrying miquelet/flintlocks.
Would likely be a common site even as late as the 1880's.

Rick

Yes, the M1874 Peabody-Martini, M1870 Berdan №2, & Shishane were all obsolete but common guns in the regions of the Ottoman Empire/Balkans & Caucasus all the way into the 1930's. When I was in Georgia (caucasus) last year I found family photos from locals of their grandparents from as late as 1929 with Berdan and Miquelets. In Edith Durham's "High Albania: A Victorian Traveller's Balkan Oddyssey" she mentions about the gun loving culture of the Albanians in 1909 "[the martini] had cost 12 napoleons, the price of an ordinary wife, and he spent 80 guldens a year - exactly half his income - "feeding" it."
And just to get back to the MUZZLEloaders:

& a little different, Bulgarian Boyliya

 

[Rudyard]

What Brilliant photoes quite made my day . The inlays in one earlier pic shows that there are some very able & patient owners still who have mastered the small circlet of brass' tube' in effect that hold the trianguler brass set in what I guess might be pitch they are only shallow inletted . and doing them in such profusion must take great patience though Ide guess after doing so many they would likley have got it all down pat . I had enough of a struggle with the bone I used on the short Tuffancha? I got up .The brass tube wouldn't be the problem now & I suppose they would draw the trianguler pieces like wire is done . I was mid post when the other pics appeared getting better & better Some look like they had brass tacks but deceptive & just the illusion probably. What I did notice was one clearly percussion. The old barrels Major Noel Corry hauled back ' from Kurdistan I think 'so many had evidently been old oft fine barrels ground & modified to put to percussion with the forward part of the otherwise 'drum & Nipple ' an extended' bar 'to simulate the normal Western European look though the bar was integral to the barrel in them . & oddly these 'side plugs' seldom are found though I have one & its a temptation to stock it up in that style Two of the pics show a French/ Belgium stocking style . All good stuff .
Regards Rudyard

 

[cyten]

What Brilliant photoes quite made my day . The inlays in one earlier pic shows that there are some very able & patient owners still who have mastered the small circlet of brass' tube' in effect that hold the trianguler brass set in what I guess might be pitch they are only shallow inletted . and doing them in such profusion must take great patience though Ide guess after doing so many they would likley have got it all down pat . I had enough of a struggle with the bone I used on the short Tuffancha? I got up .The brass tube wouldn't be the problem now & I suppose they would draw the trianguler pieces like wire is done . I was mid post when the other pics appeared getting better & better Some look like they had brass tacks but deceptive & just the illusion probably. What I did notice was one clearly percussion. The old barrels Major Noel Corry hauled back ' from Kurdistan I think 'so many had evidently been old oft fine barrels ground & modified to put to percussion with the forward part of the otherwise 'drum & Nipple ' an extended' bar 'to simulate the normal Western European look though the bar was integral to the barrel in them . & oddly these 'side plugs' seldom are found though I have one & its a temptation to stock it up in that style Two of the pics show a French/ Belgium stocking style . All good stuff .
Regards Rudyard

I'm glad you enjoyed them, Rudyard! For years I have been searching for contemporary photos of these in use but never managed to find ANY. My wife & I recently relocated to Armenia and all of the sudden, I managed to find a lot. Coincidence?
The brass inlets are called "rozetki" (розетки) in Bulgaria where there are still craftsmen who make them by hand as well as new stocks for old barrels and locks.

Tedious work, but so is muzzleloading in general!