I'm sorry, WHAT. Quite the wonderful wife!
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Ottoman Guns
- Thread starter Rudyard
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Yes she is! Best friend and companion Explorer! We have quite an exciting life.
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Bulgaria is part of the EU.
There should be no problem getting Bobi's part shipped to the US.
There should be no problem getting Bobi's part shipped to the US.
In Bulgaria, the law is that a weapon manufactured before 1900 that fires black powder is not considered a weapon. But there is another law "on cultural heritage" and there must be a document from the local museum that the object does not represent a cultural value, if it represents a cultural value, it will be confiscated. In Bulgaria, it is easier to import weapons than to export them. That's why in Bulgaria we all hide our weapons and when Cyten was with me I was careful what I showed him. There are many collectors in our country with unique collections, but no one will show them to you, Cyten can attest to that. With us, the police very often come and confiscate your weapons under the "Cultural Heritage Act", they do an examination and if it is not a cultural asset, they return it to you after 2-3 years, and in bad condition. It all depends on the local police and the local museum. As you know, Bulgaria is a small country with more than 1300 years of history, our country was founded in 681. Bulgaria is the third country in Europe with more archaeological finds after Italy and Greece. A lot of these finds are exported illegally, so the police and customs are very strict when exporting weapons. There is more to tell and show, but later.
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Sam squanch
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So the police basically ruin your antique firearms on purpose so you can’t use them….
That’s nuts. Historical preservation and public vs private is a complicated issue, but that’s definitely on the extreme side. I know Bulgaria has some very important Neolithic sites, so that’s a bummer there is such an issue with illegal exportation.
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That is some very nice work by all you folks!
I am in contact with 2 gentlemen from the USA who have brought multiple antique guns from Bulgaria stateside. I will report back here with details on how it can be accomplished. As Bobi mentioned, due to the cultural heritage law, it can be challenging, and it was very difficult to get into contact with any collectors willing to meet or discuss anything, I'm very lucky to happen to have a mutual friend who vouched for me.
To keep the thread visually stimulating, here is another Shishane from Gabrovo (Bobi, correct me if I am mistaken) The wrists on these are so wide, it wasn't possible for me to wrap my hand around them entirely, though I dont have big hands.
It seems the brass coverings on locks is almost exclusive to Bulgarian guns
An interesting split/jigsaw tang
Here is another kind of ramrod which is far more simple than the decorated Suma ramrods that also have tongs
To keep the thread visually stimulating, here is another Shishane from Gabrovo (Bobi, correct me if I am mistaken) The wrists on these are so wide, it wasn't possible for me to wrap my hand around them entirely, though I dont have big hands.
It seems the brass coverings on locks is almost exclusive to Bulgarian guns
An interesting split/jigsaw tang
Here is another kind of ramrod which is far more simple than the decorated Suma ramrods that also have tongs
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Sam squanch
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Split tang? A repair or a hooked breech for removing the barrel?
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Post #388: The overall large dimensions of that shishane makes me think this is a wall or rampart gun. That split tang is rather curious. I can't visualize that being a repair. Never seen a barrel tang break in that manner. It looks intentionally made that way. As Sam mentioned, a variation of a hook breech. It would be a simple matter to slide off the single, front barrel band and simply lift the barrel from the stock. But I would want at least one more barrel band back towards the breech area before firing the gun. LOL But I can't figure out what purpose the rear portion of the tang serves.? I notice rear portion sits very deep in it's stock mortise.
But a very cool looking shishane for sure.
Rick
But a very cool looking shishane for sure.
Rick
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Simple, hammer/screwdriver/loading rod combination for pistols. Nice find.
Most of the decorated suma rods do indeed have those tongs included. I've never really known what the original purpose of the tongs were used for. But I suspect it has to do with cleaning the bores of the pistols. If you squeezed the tips of the tongs together, and poked a small hole in a cleaning patch, inserted it into the bore, the tongs expanding outward would keep the cleaning patch in place. I think. LOL Would be an interesting experiment.
But I can't try this experiment since my suma rod was made with a stabbing spike instead of tongs. The handle is spring loaded to the shaft for quick retrieval versus threaded in the tongs version.
Rick
Most of the decorated suma rods do indeed have those tongs included. I've never really known what the original purpose of the tongs were used for. But I suspect it has to do with cleaning the bores of the pistols. If you squeezed the tips of the tongs together, and poked a small hole in a cleaning patch, inserted it into the bore, the tongs expanding outward would keep the cleaning patch in place. I think. LOL Would be an interesting experiment.
But I can't try this experiment since my suma rod was made with a stabbing spike instead of tongs. The handle is spring loaded to the shaft for quick retrieval versus threaded in the tongs version.
Rick
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Another simple, yet decorated suma rod. Artzi, with Oriental Arms believes this one is old, Possibly 18th Century. I mounted this on the back of my holster with a brass tube and lace for field use.
Rick
Rick
Sam squanch
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I thought the giant tweezers might be to grab coals from a fire to light your pipe. Or remove ticks…..
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Eating utensils? Not very likely since eating with your right hand (no utensils) was common.
Whatever... they are neat! Nicely decorated.
Whatever... they are neat! Nicely decorated.
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Yes. Could be. ?? I don't recall ever reading or hearing anyone with an explanation. Maybe Bobi has an opinion ?
Rick
Sam squanch
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Maybe they are to remove bullets from one’s own body after being shot….
Hello all, I've been in contact with one of the gentlemen who has brought guns out of Bulgaria and he replied
"...Last time I did it was a long time ago... In short, I needed a document from the police that the gun is an antique and, therefore not a controlled object and a statement from a museum expert that it is not a "cultural value" (културна ценност). In the end it is the customs officer on duty that day that decides if your documents are proper and sufficient. He didn't accept them the first time and I had to get an opinion from the Ministry of Culture on the "cultural value". Still didn't work - no explanation. Third time a charm, same set of documents was accepted. It was too much hassle for me as at that point I had friends involved in shipping it since I have left the country. After this I never attempted another such transaction..."
As for the Gabrovo Shishane being a wall or rampart gun, this was my first thought initially when I saw the stocks being repaired at Bobi's shop. However, this seems to be that regions particular style. You can see multiple examples here.
And as always, a very nice display of Rick's collection. I had never seen a Suma rod with a spike! As for what the tongs were used for, all I can add is this period painting showing them being used to hold a coal to light a pipe.
"...Last time I did it was a long time ago... In short, I needed a document from the police that the gun is an antique and, therefore not a controlled object and a statement from a museum expert that it is not a "cultural value" (културна ценност). In the end it is the customs officer on duty that day that decides if your documents are proper and sufficient. He didn't accept them the first time and I had to get an opinion from the Ministry of Culture on the "cultural value". Still didn't work - no explanation. Third time a charm, same set of documents was accepted. It was too much hassle for me as at that point I had friends involved in shipping it since I have left the country. After this I never attempted another such transaction..."
As for the Gabrovo Shishane being a wall or rampart gun, this was my first thought initially when I saw the stocks being repaired at Bobi's shop. However, this seems to be that regions particular style. You can see multiple examples here.
And as always, a very nice display of Rick's collection. I had never seen a Suma rod with a spike! As for what the tongs were used for, all I can add is this period painting showing them being used to hold a coal to light a pipe.
that’s a huge pain. Looks like unless someone has a customs or ministry of culture friend, shipping these to the US is a no go.
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Well... one could always try to drive it out.... 
lots of great scenery!
No border checks for EU countries.
With the proper paper work you would be in your right. But... since when did that help with unreasonable customs officers. Were packages being detained and searched before leaving the country? Did the shipper find this out after shipping and it was returned? Was this at an airport?
Just curious about their system of "customs". I travel quite a bit to smaller ,not popular countries and always wonder what to expect. Although... I have only brought antiques (non-cultural) items from the EU in checked luggage. Declaring them at the border.
lots of great scenery!No border checks for EU countries.
With the proper paper work you would be in your right. But... since when did that help with unreasonable customs officers. Were packages being detained and searched before leaving the country? Did the shipper find this out after shipping and it was returned? Was this at an airport?
Just curious about their system of "customs". I travel quite a bit to smaller ,not popular countries and always wonder what to expect. Although... I have only brought antiques (non-cultural) items from the EU in checked luggage. Declaring them at the border.
