Ottoman Guns

[rickystl]

Looks like the wire came loose over time allowing the percussion hammer to drop forward. Very strange indeed.


Agree with Sam's post #420. I've seen that done before.

Rick

 

[cyten]

I decided to try to get an idea of the capacity of one of my Ottoman Barut Ölçeği (powder measure) Unfortunately, I have no access to blackpowder in Armenia, so I went with the only thing I could get, Cheddite Drago shotgun powder.

This is not accurate to black but, it is something to hold over until I get back to the USA or if any members here want to meauser with theirs. The measurements were taken at the notches and lines and not the dots.

13, 20, 30, 35.5, 41, 50, 55.5, 61, 77, 82, 94

 

[TobJohn]

I decided to try to get an idea of the capacity of one of my Ottoman Barut Ölçeği (powder measure) Unfortunately, I have no access to blackpowder in Armenia, so I went with the only thing I could get, Cheddite Drago shotgun powder.

This is not accurate to black but, it is something to hold over until I get back to the USA or if any members here want to meauser with theirs. The measurements were taken at the notches and lines and not the dots.

View attachment 231355
13, 20, 30, 35.5, 41, 50, 55.5, 61, 77, 82, 94

Was there an Ottoman unit of measure that was comparable to grains? I assume so, but historical measuring systems are byzantine (heh) to sort through.

 

[cyten]

Was there an Ottoman unit of measure that was comparable to grains? I assume so, but historical measuring systems are byzantine (heh) to sort through.

That is a great question, maybe @Barud knows? I have three of these and none of them seem to have matching increments

 

[TobJohn]

That is a great question, maybe @Barud knows? I have three of these and none of them seem to have matching increments

Wikipedia actually does have an article on this, but I do not see something suitable for gunpowder:
Ottoman units of measurement - Wikipedia

 

[hectorintca]

Wikipedia actually does have an article on this, but I do not see something suitable for gunpowder:
Ottoman units of measurement - Wikipedia

Argggg. My head hurts...Kind of when I tried to learn the Arshen units of measurement for old Russian sights...

 

[rickystl]

I need to check mine with genuine 2F black powder. I've too long delayed doing this.

Rick

 

[Barud]

Was there an Ottoman unit of measure that was comparable to grains? I assume so, but historical measuring systems are byzantine (heh) to sort through.

That is a great question, maybe @Barud knows? I have three of these and none of them seem to have matching increments

I know that bullet weights were measured using dirhams (a dram equivalent), but I don't recall any measures regarding small amounts of gunpowder. I would assume that they used dirhams for that as well, or just eyeballed it.

 

[cyten]

A happy Independence Day to our American members! I wanted to share a recent acquisition. An 1846 dated Greek Kariophili/Kariofili/Karanfilka with a 31 inch barrel. It is in need of some cleaning up and TLC but that is part of the fun (and the price reflected that).

Check out that non-concentric bore!

 

[Sam squanch]

Yeah…. Don’t shoot it like that!

 

[TobJohn]

A happy Independence Day to our American members! I wanted to share a recent acquisition. An 1846 dated Greek Kariophili/Kariofili/Karanfilka with a 31 inch barrel. It is in need of some cleaning up and TLC but that is part of the fun (and the price reflected that).

View attachment 233397
View attachment 233396
View attachment 233401
View attachment 233405

Check out that non-concentric bore!

View attachment 233402

View attachment 233406

Neat! I saw one of those for sale on Gunsinternational.

It’s so cool to see details like the off center bore. It helps remind you that “good enough” was a thing back then. The 1520s RA wheellock pistol has one too.

 

[rickystl]

Congratulations !! Nice find. Besides a couple barrel bands missing, it looks complete. But it looks like there are two bands to make copies from. Appears to have a late style flintlock with a roller on the frizzen. Interesting that these Karoiphili's show up with about 50/50 with some using flintlocks, and others using the Balkan style miquelet locks. Also note the fancy trigger. A common characteristic with Greek gun builders. After cleaning, you may find on the top, rear portion of the barrel, an engraving depicting a man's face. Also seems to be common on these Karoiphili's. Never knew whether it is supposed to represent the builder or the owner (?) Looks like it just needs a comprehensive cleaning. Nice project.
BARREL: Hmmm. Looks like maybe the muzzle was damaged at some point during the period and crudely cut back. Possibly the top portion of the muzzle was hammered flat to avoid a sharp edge after the cutting (?)
If, down the road, you decide you want to shoot the gun....this barrel looks like it's a job for Superman !! (Bobby Hoyt) LOL But it can be done. Bobby can even add length to a barrel. He did this once for me.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Some more images...

 

[Sam squanch]

first one to make fun of the guy in the skirt and live wins a cigar…..

 

[TobJohn]

first one to make fun of the guy in the skirt and live wins a cigar…..

To paraphrase a joke I heard: “when you think about anatomy, skirts make a lot more sense for guys and pants for women”. Maybe the Scotts and Greeks were on to something

 

[Sam squanch]

Saw a guy wearing a kilt last weekend. He looked like he ate nails for breakfast.

 

[rickystl]

Here is the close cousin to the Greek Kariophili. I's generally called a Rasak from Southern Albania. The wood stock architecture is almost identical.. The Rasak has a slightly deeper curve in it's butt stock. It's all iron mounted. It has the typical Albanian knurled trigger, and was made without a trigger guard (about half the Kariophilis it seems were also built without guards). But the best evidence of the difference is the gold writings on the barrel and breech plug tang are in Arabic versus Latin. There was much cross culture between Greece and Southern Albania during the period. The barrel on this gun could be 100 years older than the rest of the gun. Not unusual.
It sports a typical Balkan style miquelet lock.

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

How does that stock feel on the shoulder?

 

[rickystl]

How does that stock feel on the shoulder?

Hi Sam

It reminds me of those crescent shaped butt plates used on those Ohio styled percussion rifles from the mid-1800's. Never understood why those were popular. Actually this one feels more like a Hawken style butt plate once it meets the shoulder. So, better than it first appears.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

While searching for something else, I re-discovered a pistol I had forgotten about. Don't think I've ever posted it here. Collectors believe this style of pistol originates from Montenegro. It's general build is similar to other Ottoman/Balkan flint pistols of the period. The exception is the grip on the stock. Seems to have been unique to this area. Even their later BPC unmentionable revolvers carried over using this grip design. The lock appears to be one of the common export locks of the period. Funny how some gun designs became popular with locals of one area, but not adopted by the other surrounding areas.

Rick