Over powder wad?

[GAHUNTER60]

I've got an old Tradition's .50 caliber Hawken with a 1-66" barrel. The gun shoots very good with patched round ball with 80-grains of fff at 50 yards; pretty good at 60 yards (four inches off the bench); but beyond 60. it's a crapshoot. I plan to hunt with this rifle the rest of this season, seeing as I've already killed a good buck my TC Hawken (spread the wealth, so to speak). I'll just be sure to keep my shots at 60 yards, or below!

My question is, do y'all suppose an over-powder wad would help get that little bit of accuracy needed to stretch my kill zone to 75 or 80 yards? If so, how should I load it: lubed or dry (I notice TOTW sells some with Wonder Lube)? However, I've also read that wonder lube can contaminate the powder.

You know, there's nothing simple about this sport! I've only been doing it for 53 years, and I still feel like a newbie!

 

[Frontier's]

I have the st louis hawken and the hawken woodsman. Both have a 1:48 twist and at 100 yards, 1 1/2" or under is very normal. If you are shooting a 4" group at 50 yards with the 1:66 twist, you're doing something wrong.

First off, what powder is your 3fg?

Patch thickness & lube?

Are you cleaning between shots?

Have you recovered any shot patches to look for rips, tears, holes in them? That will tell you everything.

My go to load, 70gr 3fg goex, .020" patch, .490 round ball. My guess is you are using a thinner .015 patch and its burning up.

 

[Walkingeagle]

I would try lubed over dry, but not saturated.
Walk

 

[firestick]

A hard felt wool wad can be very helpful in the accuracy department. I prefer mine moistened with the same moose milk I use for the patched prb. My 58 Navy Arms goes from 4+ inches to 2" using a wad under a prb or a Lee R.E.A.L. Itried every patch material and thickness I could think of and found the wad was the trick and a linen patch for easy loading.

 

[mooman76]

It most certainly can help, especially if you are getting damaged patches when firing. When I used wonder lube, I got burned patches. It didn't effect my accuracy on mild charges though so didn't bother me much at the time. Try some better, heavier patches.

 

[GAHUNTER60]

I have the st louis hawken and the hawken woodsman. Both have a 1:48 twist and at 100 yards, 1 1/2" or under is very normal. If you are shooting a 4" group at 50 yards with the 1:66 twist, you're doing something wrong.

First off, what powder is your 3fg?

Patch thickness & lube?

Are you cleaning between shots?

Have you recovered any shot patches to look for rips, tears, holes in them? That will tell you everything.

My go to load, 70gr 3fg goex, .020" patch, .490 round ball. My guess is you are using a thinner .015 patch and its burning up.

No, I'm two inches (or less) at 50; about four at 60! It's crazy to me that ten yards can make that big a difference!

For one thing, I know I'm overpowering my barrel by shooting 80 grains. This same rifle is a tack driver and match winner with 50 grains of Goex 2F. But I feel that I need the extra umph to cleanly take deer with a round ball. Seeing as how accuracy with 70 grains is identical to 80, I'm going with the heavier load.

I'm shooting .490 balls and pre-lubed (Wonder Lube), .015 cotton patches, which is what I shoot in matches. I always swab between every shot. I've got some .018 pillow ticking, which I'll try tomorrow.

 

[Frontier's]

Yes try the tighter patches.

 

[Frontier's]

And you are not over powering your barrel. My 200 yard load is 90r 3fg.
What powder ru shooting?

 

[mooman76]

Prelubed patches could be the problem. They tend to break down over time. Maybe try other patches for your heavier hunting loads. 80 gr is not really a real heavy charge for 50 with 1-66 twist.

 

[GAHUNTER60]

Went to the range today with a box of .495 balls I found at a local shop that had been on the shelf for several years. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any .015 pillow ticking and had to use .018 that I lubed with TOTW mink oil. The combo was beyond tight! I literally had to hammer the ball down the barrel when it was clean. Forget trying to reload without two spit patches and two dry patches. The powder was 80 grains of Schuetzen FFF.

But tight or not, it shot pretty good at 75 yards.

It's three inches from the center of the cross to the highest bullet hole. Subsequent shots all grouped in the same spot.

I'm going to hunt with it like it is tomorrow morning and use Kentucky windage if I get a shot over 50 yards. Next week, I'll go back to the range with a file, a bag of patches (I'll need a lot,) and some moose milk and see if I can get the group a little higher.

 

[Frontier's]

Moose milk is usually water based. Even alcohol based lubes are no good for hunting as it evaporates. Awesome shooting though, that combo made me grunt lol.

 

[GAHUNTER60]

The moose milk is to clean the gun between shots at the range when I start shooting and filing the front sight to bring the POI up. You ain't gettin' no ball, as described above, down that barrel without it being clean -- REAL clean! Two moose milk patches, followed by two dry patches does the job, at least well enough that I can get the ball seated with a six-pound hammer instead of a 12!

When I hunt, I use the mink oil tallow, which seems to do the job without contaminating the powder, though I will have to run several spit patches in order to reload.

I need to go ahead and kill a deer with this rifle so I can retire it (all my firearms must earn their keep). Now that I've found an accurate load, that goal seems to be within reach. My other Hawken already took a nice 8-point buck this season. Time for this one to step up!

 

[ohio ramrod]

I started using over powder wads with greased mini's deer hunting to prevent the grease from wetting the powder many years ago. I liked the results so well I tried an over powder wad with patched round balls, and liked the results and have been using leather over powder wads now for over ten years.

 

[firestick]

The moose milk is to clean the gun between shots at the range when I start shooting and filing the front sight to bring the POI up. You ain't gettin' no ball, as described above, down that barrel without it being clean -- REAL clean! Two moose milk patches, followed by two dry patches does the job, at least well enough that I can get the ball seated with a six-pound hammer instead of a 12!

When I hunt, I use the mink oil tallow, which seems to do the job without contaminating the powder, though I will have to run several spit patches in order to reload.

I need to go ahead and kill a deer with this rifle so I can retire it (all my firearms must earn their keep). Now that I've found an accurate load, that goal seems to be within reach. My other Hawken already took a nice 8-point buck this season. Time for this one to step up!

If it is that tight I can't see a patch NOT being damaged upon loading.

 

[Frontier's]

If the crown isnt sharp and there are no burrs, a good lube is used to ease stress, it will work fine. Pro shooters normally use a mallet to load their projectiles.

 

[firestick]

If the crown isnt sharp and there are no burrs, a good lube is used to ease stress, it will work fine. Pro shooters normally use a mallet to load their projectiles.

Understood but I am seriously doubting this is a quality target barrel.

 

[Frontier's]

They'll shoot with the best of them. Traditions/Ardesa do make a quality barrel. My hawken will hold softball size groups at 200 yards. Ive looked at a variety of name brand barrels and found less imperfections in traditions barrels. Quite surprising all the deep scratches and chattering youll fine in the premium barrels.

 

[GAHUNTER60]

Sometimes I wonder why I bother to go and sit in the woods. I had 18 does file by me yesterday, and a very nice 8-point buck stood broadside to me and begged me to shoot him. Problem is, he was only a little bit bigger than the 8-point I killed earlier with my other Hawken, and I had vowed not to shoot another buck unless he's a real slammer.

As far as the does, I just wasn't in a doe killin' mood! (Much to the chagrin of my hunting partner who's begging me to shoot a doe for him 'cause he's out of venison.)

If I'm not going to pull the trigger, why am I bothering to find an accurate hunting load in the old Traditions?

 

[FishnRod]

Sometimes I wonder why I bother to go and sit in the woods.

If I'm not going to pull the trigger, why am I bothering to find an accurate hunting load in the old Traditions?

Because shoot blackpowder is so much fun.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Sometimes I wonder why I bother to go and sit in the woods. I had 18 does file by me yesterday, and a very nice 8-point buck stood broadside to me and begged me to shoot him. Problem is, he was only a little bit bigger than the 8-point I killed earlier with my other Hawken, and I had vowed not to shoot another buck unless he's a real slammer.

As far as the does, I just wasn't in a doe killin' mood! (Much to the chagrin of my hunting partner who's begging me to shoot a doe for him 'cause he's out of venison.)

If I'm not going to pull the trigger, why am I bothering to find an accurate hunting load in the old Traditions?

Went through that same internal struggle a few years back. Had maybe 3 or 4 years of it. Still went and spent time with friends or family but never even raised my own gun. Then in 2018 something kicked in and I harvested a fine young cow elk, followed by a bull, mule buck and calf moose in 2019, then my opening morning bull elk again this year. I think I was in a state of slight depression perhaps. Not sure as I’ve never been depressed before, but it did align with some serious life events. Anyhow, just enjoy your time in the woods, and all the sights, sounds and smells associated. It’s more than just the trigger pull anyway.
Walk