Over Shot Card

[roundball]

I have a similar question on this topic. I have tried 3 overshot cards on top of the powder vs a thick fiber wad, and also a split fiber wad over the powder. Has anyone tried the felt wads some rifle shooters use over the powder as a cushion wad? I'm still trying different variables, but more experienced shooters all point to think cushion wads as being the cause for blown patterns. I thought the felt might be a good compromise.

Oxyoke Wonderwads are all I use over powder in my smoothbores...two in the .54cal and one in the .62cal for the particular loads I use in each one.

 

[Dave K]

I use a fairly thin over powder card, about .070 thick. My cushion is 1/4" thick fiber, soaked in virgin(virgin has no salt) olive oil and allowed to drain. Over shot card is a thin one about .030 thick. I use the same thickness componets in all the shotguns I shoot. That includes at this time, 12ga, 14ga, 16ga, 16ga, 18ga. and a 20ga. It also worked good in the 10ga. I used to have. I have tried other componets but this always gives me good patterns with the right amount of powder and shot.

 

[jdixon]

JavaMan:
I too have become a believer in the styrofoam cushion under the shot. I have been using a 3/4" I.D. water pipe that I filed out some to give me the desired .785 - 90" I was looking for (this is for a 10 ga.). I sharpened a bevel edge on the cutting side (bevel from outside in working the best) and by hand, I insert it into 1" block styrofoam and turn several times while pushing down. Once through, I push the styrofoam cushion plug out of the barrel with a dowel. Results - I was getting as much as 25% of the total shot payload hitting inside of a 10" circle at 30 yrds using the styrofoam wad. Best I could get before that was using a thin Ox-Yoke wad or two and getting about 18% into the circle. Load column was this - equal volumes shot and powder (105 gr. 1 3/8 oz shot #6, hard card, the 1" styrofoam cushion, shot, 2 thin over shot cards.

 

[Russianblood]

If I were going to use styrofoam in my smoothbores, I would just go ahead and use modern plastic shotgun wads. And I can't bring myself to use modern components in my flintlock trade gun.

I've used felt wads, fiber wads and wadded up tow all with varying degrees of success. So far my best patterns are from a single 1/8" felt wad over the powder. But the downside is it doesn't seal the bore well and the shot doesn't have much power to it. Well, back to the drawing board.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Try using a 1/8" thinck over powder card, then use that felt wad with, or without lube, olive oil, etc. If you let the lube dry, the wad will be lighter, and less likely to follow the shot column and punch a hole in your pattern. Someone makes, or made, a plastic " spreader " wad to be used by skeet shooters to open up their patterns more than if fired from a cylinder bore gun. The wad had a post in the middle which separated the shot in the wad, and obviously added weight to the plastic shot wad so it followed the shot and broke up the pattern outside the barrel. I think its become clear that the thick fiber cushion wads, when soaked in oil, or lube, or moose milk, are too heavy, and they blow the patterns. I can understand not wanting to use styrofoam wads. I have been of the same thinking for years. But, I am ready to try them just to see if I can improve the performance as is reported here by J.R. I have seen these being used in some trap shoots, and its clear that the guys using them get much better patterns than I do with my components. I have already found that my patterns improve if I cut my cushion wads in half. I am not going to cut them down even more and let them dryout after I soak them in moose milk. I should see what improvement my patterns receive from these changes, if any kind of cushion wad made of fiber can be used. Thanks to everyone here who has contributed to this issue.

 

[jdixon]

Yeah, I understand the non-traditional aspect when using the styrofoam. I went to this configuration for turkey hunting. After watching a couple of birds cleanly fly out of what should have been a killing shot I started seriously working on the pattern of that gun. I found as others had the fiber over powder wads were blowing the shot column all to pieces, very inconsistent patterns down range. As hard as it is sometiimes to get that Tom in front of your gun in killing range, I am unwilling to risk a miss or simply wounding a bird just to remain period correct. The styrofoam under shot cushion is the best way that I have yet found to hold a tighter pattern and get the maximum hunting performance out of my 10 ga. front stuffer.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I have a similar question on this topic. I have tried 3 overshot cards on top of the powder vs a thick fiber wad, and also a split fiber wad over the powder. Has anyone tried the felt wads some rifle shooters use over the powder as a cushion wad? I'm still trying different variables, but more experienced shooters all point to think cushion wads as being the cause for blown patterns. I thought the felt might be a good compromise.

I've used 3/8" wool felt wads from Mike's Shotgun Wads and had great results in my flint double 18 bore. I've never used the wonder wads due to how expensive they are.

 

[roundball]

If I were going to use styrofoam in my smoothbores, I would just go ahead and use modern plastic shotgun wads. And I can't bring myself to use modern components in my flintlock trade gun.

I've used felt wads, fiber wads and wadded up tow all with varying degrees of success. So far my best patterns are from a single 1/8" felt wad over the powder. But the downside is it doesn't seal the bore well and the shot doesn't have much power to it. Well, back to the drawing board.

Something to consider...I use the next caliber size Oxyoke wad in everything for a tighter fit

 

[roundball]

I've never used the wonder wads due to how expensive they are.

They are right proud of them aren't they...so far, since I shoot so few shot loads in a smoothbore, a couple bags of Wonderewads are OK.

However, what are "Mikes" wads like that you mentioned:
Are they like Oxyoke wads?
Are they prelubed?
If so, are they 'saturated' with lube or is it just on the outside?
And do you know what kind of lube it is?

 

[Java Man]

Wow, this has turned into a great thread.

Based on input from this forum, I tried under shot stuff back in March, mentioned in one of my previous posts.

Powder, over powder card, dab of Mink Oil Tallow, overshot card. Then the shot and another over shot card. Did not pattern it, but did well on clays. My ratio of 2f to shot by volume was about 2:3 (60/90).

The dab of lube should have been squeezed out and spread along the barrel pretty well on discharge. I shot probably 25+ rounds, and swabbed the bbl once. And it wasn't even really necessary.

 

[robinghewitt]

You can split them into two 1/4 inch fiber wads, they last twice as long that way... :haha:

I do that :grin:

I use commercial lubed felt wads, don't really know what they are made of but the smell is oil of wintergreen.

I used to mess about with ML loads trying to improve my score at the clays, but I don't bother anymore. With hindsight I think I needed practice more than a magic formula :thumbsup:

 

If 1/8" styro works, why not 1/8" felt from an old cowboy hat?. An article I read years ago by VM Starr suggests that a cusion wad is not necessary. Has anyone tried loading the shot right on the hard over powder wad?

Cody

 

[Java Man]

Yes.

Based on input from this forum, I tried under shot stuff back in March, mentioned in one of my previous posts.

Powder, over powder card, dab of Mink Oil Tallow, overshot card. Then the shot and another over shot card. Did not pattern it, but did well on clays. My ratio of 2f to shot by volume was about 2:3 (60/90).

The dab of lube should have been squeezed out and spread along the barrel pretty well on discharge. I shot probably 25+ rounds, and swabbed the bbl once. And it wasn't even really necessary.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Cody: Most old hats are not 1/8" thick. they are much thinner. Felt does weigh more than styrofoam, which is why we are all experimenting with the stuff. Styrofoam also will not absorb lube, adding to its weight, and making it travel further out the barrel than if it is dry. Being dry, the styrofoam separates from the shot very quickly, and floats to the ground, often taking the overpowder card with it. You rfelt hat, even if you find one that is 1/8" thick, will weigh much more than the styrofoam, and if you soak it in lube, or fub lube on it before loading, it will carry that lube with it out the barrel and not separate from the shot as quickly as the styrofoam does.

The serious ML shotgun shooters I have met have gone to Styrofoam for a reason, and you can see it in how well their guns pattern and break clay targets. Because stryofoam is so light, it makes a quick reload, as they pour powder down the barrel, then put a card wad and the styrofoam cushion wad, and push it down the barrel with their finger, then pour in the shot, and then place an overshot card in the barrel, and run the entire load down the barrel with one stroke. The process saves them both time and energy for shooting long matches, and they come prepared to shoot a hundred to 200 shots in a day! They use dippers for the powder charge and the shot, and their range boxes carry both the powder, shot, wads, and cleaning patches, in set locations so that they limit their hand motions and conserve energy even doing this.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

If 1/8" styro works, why not 1/8" felt from an old cowboy hat?. An article I read years ago by VM Starr suggests that a cusion wad is not necessary. Has anyone tried loading the shot right on the hard over powder wad?

Cody

Absolutely! The so-called cushion wads were developed for breechloading guns where there was need for a wad long enough to bridge the gap of the forcing cone between chamber diameter and bore diameter. They also were called "filler wads" as different length wads were used to adjust the load so that different loads would all fill the shotshell to the same height for a good crimp. There is no forcing cone gap in a muzzleloading gun and no pre-set length of load thus no need for a long wad. While it does seem reasonable that a "cushion" would reduce shot deformation and improve patterns, we find many things which seem "reasonable" don't always prove out in practice. In ML guns the only use for the cushion wad is to carry lube.
V.M.Starr specified TWO hard cards over powder and those wads must fit the bore tightly because sealing the gas behind the shot is vital. A true "blown pattern" comes from gas blowing past the wad and disrupting the shot. That also contributes to bore leading.
Paul, I suspect the superior results you witness from some trap shooters may have more to do with their choke bored barrels and their shooting skill than with styrofoam wads. I do see your point that quick and easy loading can be a factor to consider for a long day of trap shooting. :grin:

 

CoyoteJoe, that's kinda what i thought. The only reason I use a "cusion" wad is to carry the lube as you state. Your point about the use of cusion/filler wads in ca'tridges is one I have never heard before but sounds reasonable. I have some cork wads for cartridge loads and they are anything BUT a cusion. On my last outing i started splitting my "cusion" wads and my score improved alot. I thought I was just haveing a good day.

Cody

 

[paulvallandigham]

Guys: The problem with cushion wads, and now with the new styrofoam wads is that the bottom row of shot can get stuck to them, pulling them along with the shot string. They cushion by giving that bottom row of shot something softer to push against, or more accurately, to be pushed by, when the gases initially begin moving the shot. By cushioning the shot, you protect the bottom one or two layers from getting flats on them, which drop them out of the pattern before it goes 20 yds.

We saw this again with the early Bismuth shotshells when the bottom 2 or three rows of shot crumbled in the wad, and left the barrel as a dust cloud, often coming back in a headwind into the face of the shooters. Different powders, and a slight change in the wad has solved that largely. In ML guns, you still need to worry about pellet deformation in the barrel.

My solution, for what its worth, was to use an over shot card, or wafer, over whatever cusion wad I use, so that there is a smooth, hard, even surface at the base of the shot to push the shot evenly out the barrel(releasing the shot evenly from the barrel) . The cushion takes up that initial shock that would otherwise distort the bottom row of shot in the column, while the hard surface of the over shot card prevents the shot from sticking in the cushion wad. ( 3 good reasons to make a change in how I load. This is my standard for making any change over traditional loading procedures, which you can find in Dixie Gun Works' catalog. If I can't get 3 worthwhile improvements from a change, I don't do it. )

My 2 cents.

 

[BS]

I got the most improvement from cutting my lubed wad nearly in half.

nitro/ lubed wad/ shot/ over card

A mix of 50/50 mineral spirits and veggie oil works best of all the lube tried, nearly self cleaning. Just drop a fiber-felt wad in a jar of lube, let it sink....give a couple of pinches to remove some of the lube.[trial and error] Then stuff em down the tube.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I got the most improvement from cutting my lubed wad nearly in half.

nitro/ lubed wad/ shot/ over card

A mix of 50/50 mineral spirits and veggie oil works best of all the lube tried, nearly self cleaning. Just drop a fiber-felt wad in a jar of lube, let it sink....give a couple of pinches to remove some of the lube.[trial and error] Then stuff em down the tube.

My best loads are identicle to yours, using 1/2 a cushion wad. The diference is I use the solid crisco by melting it in a frying pan and droping the wads in the melted crisco. I don't let them soak up much. With melted crisco as a lube I can shoot several hundred shots with out cleaning .

 

[Java Man]

I tried the cotton balls for over shot cards today. My load was 70gr FFg, over powder card, 1/2 pre lubed cushion wad, 1 1/4oz 7.5 shot, cotton ball. 20ga French Fusil, 42" bbl.

At 25yds, I had a nice dense pattern centered well, about 2' in diameter. The cotton ball turned into "snow". It certainly did not adversely affect the shot. For 4 shots anyway.

Java Man