Over-stitch Wheel or Stitch Chisel?

[MIOutdoorsman]

This question is for the leatherworkers in the group. Following excellent advice I received in an earlier post, I purchased T.C. Albert's book, Recreating the 18th Century Hunting Pouch, as I am considering making a hunting pouch out of leather and some Axis hide that I have.

I've never done any leatherworking, but this book is written SO WELL and with LARGE COLOR PICTURES that I'm feeling like I can do this.

My question for the group is this... Albert recommends an "Over-stitch wheel" for laying out the stitch pattern, followed by hand punching through all of the layers of leather (up to 4 sometimes) with a leather awl. I can imagine that being difficult to accomplish one stitch at a time, and keeping everything lined up, even with the indentations that the over-stitch wheel makes.

I noticed on various leather websites that there is also a stitch chisel that looks like a regular chisel, but instead of one wide blade, it has 8 (or so) perfectly aligned stitch punches. It looks as though you just lay it on the leather and whack it with a hammer.

Guys--is it that simple? Does this eliminate the need for a stitch wheel? Would you recommend that tool for a newbie--at least for the bulk of the hole-making process?

Thanks for your advice!

 

[Black Hand]

Those punches are likely for lace. The tines are flat and chisel-shaped. Great for long, straight runs but no good for curves. The wide tines make for a weak spot in thin leather, as the cuts are all in a line.

An overstitch wheel is not really necessary - with a little attention, it is very easy to get even spacing and stitches. If needed, I hold my pieces of leather together with small bulldog/binder clips, punch with an awl having a triangular (not round) tip and sew with linen and blunt harness needles (not necessary, but do facilitate the process). Keep your stitches tight (but not too tight, especially in softer leather) and on the small side.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hey partner, right now I'm studying making bags and other items, under a guy who makes bags for sale at market fairs. This is what I've learned..., A stitch chisel as you find for example in this 4 Piece Stitch Chisel Kit are made to make holes for leather laces/lacing not thread, sinew, or artificial sinew, in saddle leather aka cowhide. :wink: That's why the tools are robust and you whack them with a hammer. You will note that the prongs are much thicker than what a glover's needle is going to give you, and much farther apart than what the stitching wheel marks for you. So I'd say if you're not using cowhide lacing to stitch part of a saddle, stay away from them.

For bag leather, the stitching is often much finer, and much closer spaced, which is probably why in Mr. Albert's book he uses the over-stitch wheel. The tool is a very good guide to helping the stitcher to keep the sewing uniform. NOW some folks can do a pretty fair stitch by hand without such a tool, others like the stitching wheel, BUT some folks think that such a tool gives a "too modern look" to the stitching..., making the finished item much finer and nicer than would have been produced in the 18th or early 19th century. The latter group would not want you to use any tools, and just do it by eye. It's up to you.
right now I'm usually using such a wheel for what I'm doing.

I'd stick with glover's needles, plain needles, and the stitching wheel.

(BTW magnifying reading glasses, even if you don't need them for reading, may help cut down on your eye fatigue when stitching a bag or knife sheath.)

LD

 

[erock1980]

An over stitch wheel is excellent for guiding your awl punches which makes for straight stitching which makes leatherwork look good. It still involves care and attention but I highly recommend using one along with an awl rather than just eyeballing your awl stabs, especially at first and especially when it's an area that will have visible stitching.
The chisels you refer to are also known as "pricking irons" and they essentially replicate what the stitching wheel and awl are doing but in one motion. They come in different sizes (such as stitches to the inch) and blade shapes that replicate the shapes of different awl blades as well. They're very useful when used properly especially in areas where you want fine, neat stitching to be visible. They can be a little tricky and still require a lot of care and attention during use and some planning during set up. They also are not cheap and you need to have a few different ones (with different numbers of points) to account for angles and odd spaces.
Using either a stitching wheel/awl and/or pricking irons are both acceptable and useful methods of traditional leatherwork.

 

[BrownBear]

I have an array of both and use them all regularly. With that in mind I have to do this to you and answer your question with "It depends." :grin:

The "depends" part has all to do with the leather you're using and which particular tool you're considering.

You're starting out with axis leather. Never handled or even seen it, but I'm guessing it's close to deer- soft as well as rough on the flesh side.

An overstitch wheel is gonna make you nuts if you're reversing the bag after sewing, cuzz you'll be working on that soft rough side. As you handle the leather all your marks are gonna go away. You won't get so much as half way down a seam and all your marks will be gone. Only way I've found to get around it with an overstitch wheel on soft, rough leather is to add a step: After you run the overstitch wheel, follow it right away with a fine-point Sharpie and mark each of the spots before you move on to an awl.

Biggest advantage of the chisels is they set a consistent angle for your pierces. Hard to school yourself to do that with an awl. Angle of the hole is important, especially with soft leathers and near the edge. If they're not angled just right your stitches are going to pull out.

Not all chisels are created equal though. Those intended for lacing are big and course and you end up with much larger holes that can open and get ugly with soft leather. The standard Craftool models from Tandy are awful for soft leather. At the opposite extreme are those made in England and selling for $80-$100 a pop. They're incredibly good, but waaaay too spendy for my blood until I found some used ones.

Equally good are the new Craftool PRO chisels on sale right now for around $24 a pop. They're as fine and sharp as the English models, but lots cheaper. They come in 3.5mm, 3.0mm and 2.5mm sizes. That translates into roughly 8, 9 and 10 stitches per inch. For most versatility with both veg tanned and softer leathers I'd go with the 3.5mm. I also use the 3 and 2.5's, but for thinner leathers.

Don't bother with the single prong, but at the very least get yourself the 2-prong (for going around corners) and the 4-prong. For long seams you'll be even happier with an 8-prong version too, but you can get along without it.

One other thing you'll want to get: Something to mark consistent distance from the edge for your row of pierces and stitching. Craftool used to make a marking tool, but I can't find it on the Tandy tool list now. In it's place I'd get their Adjustable Stitching Groover. Works the same way, but cuts a little groove. If you don't want it to cut the groove, I suppose you could plug the hole temporarily with a nubbin of toothpick. But you'll be very happy with the results if you go ahead and spend the $25 for it along with your chisels. I bet you could also do just fine with a Wing Divider, but I just haven't tried it. However you do it, seams turn out better if you mark them before poking holes.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have used both. The punch works just fine but the layers of leather must be very secure or the punching force will make the layers shift. My favorite method if I'm home I will glue and clamp my layers together and hold them with those squeeze type paper clamps. The hole locations will be marked with the wheel and I'll drill the holes on my drill press. (is that cheating? :redface: ) Then I stitch using triangular needles and the two needle technique. I'm no ekeespurt and won't win any beauty prizes with my stuff but it works and my items don't fall apart.
I have used about every type of lace/thread you can think of, including artificial sinew. But in recent times I have come to like hemp. It is strong and can be split into small sizes if you wish. I hide my face when I buy it from stores with pictures of a funny plant in the window. :wink:

 

[Artificer]

There has been good advice given by others, but perhaps it is a little confusing? Maybe this will help clear things up.

I don't have Albert's book, but he probably advises using an overstitch wheel to impress the leather along the length of the edges that show where the holes need to be awl stabbed and keep nice/even distances between the stabbed holes. That spacing will help make your stitches look very neat and even. The overstitch wheel doesn't stab the holes through the leather, though, it just shows you where the holes need to be stabbed. Overstitch wheels are fairly modern tools, but many of us began working leather with them because they are comparatively inexpensive and I believe that is why Albert recommends them.

As others have mentioned, there are two kinds of tools that look similar and both have chisel heads, but they are meant for two completely different applications. One is a Pricking Iron and those indeed are the traditional leather worker's tool to mark the distance between holes for stabbing, BUT ALSO are tapped with a soft head hammer to cut into the leather ONLY A LITTLE BIT. They are not meant to cut all the way through the leather, though. The chisel edges are at an angle that gives the correct angle to awl stab the holes. I refer you to the section in the following link on "Stabbing the Awl Holes" and you can see the "right" way to do it with the awl stabs done on an angle.
http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_leatherstitch.html

Pricking Irons are not cheap and come in different widths with different numbers per inch of spacing. Most people don't buy them until they become more advanced leather workers. OK, here is a close up photo of a pricking iron and below it are the angled indentations it makes in leather: http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VTMAAOSw3mpXONEU/s-l300.jpg

The other kind of tool with chisel heads on it is a lacing tool punch and you DO NOT use this tool for marking stab holes for hand sewing with linen thread. This tool is meant for leather lace to be wrapped around the outer edges of the leather pieces and be joined together that way. The chisel heads on this tool are much longer because they are meant to be driven through the leather and thus form the hole for the lace. I used to say you could forget ever buying one of these for traditional leather work, until LaBonte pointed out that some pouches were made that way in Texas and the Southwest in the Spanish tradition of leather working. However, for MOST 18th century leather working where you are trying to replicate how they sewed leather together East of the Missippippi River and definitely in the original 13 colonies, this tool is NOT the one you want.

OK, working on some more info for you, but will stop here and post that in my next post.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Brown Bear,

I did not mean to step on your toes, as I was typing when you posted above. We both said the same thing in different ways, so perhaps that is good for the OP to better understand.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

We both said the same thing in different ways....

That's a scary thought! :rotf:

Somehow I suspect that if you and I sat down across the table from each other, especially with a pile of leather between us and a handful of tools, we'd get to talking in a language that would confuse anyone within earshot. But boy, would it ever be fun! :hatsoff:

 

[Artificer]

Indeed, it would most likely be very confusing to others as well as myself. :rotf:

As I was not trained by a leather working mentor, I have to be careful to use the correct terms and not ones I made up along the way.

I would love to sit down with you with tools and leather and compare notes, though.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

OK, below I am linking an excellent video that shows one both the correct way to do saddle stitching and the incorrect way. The correct way is that the needle from one side of the leather ALWAYS goes either under or over the thread from the opposite side, but it is always done one way or the other. For example, the needle goes under the thread from the back side on each and every stitch. What that does is cause the stitching to be angled nicely, that is the mark of high quality hand sewing. I did not have a leather worker mentor when I began sewing leather and discovered this on my own when attempting to replicate high quality sewing and that is why I make such an effort to point this out. Nigel sometimes puts a knot in each stitch to get the stitches to angle and he explains that in the video, though it is not required to put a knot in each stitch. Nigel also shows how to stitch both right handed and left handed.

The video also shows scribing a running a line on the leather with a compass, as Brown Bear mentioned. Just like he uses the line for the pricking iron, you can use a similar line for an overstitch wheel. (Nigel does not show using a grooving tool to make the line as Brown Bear mentioned, though.)

In the Video, Nigel stabs each hole with the awl while holding the awl and the needles and thread in his hands and he makes it look easy to do. (Trust me, it takes a lot of practice to do it that easily and don’t be embarrassed if you have to stab and hole or holes and then put the awl down to sew some stitches before you stab and sew more holes.) The reason for holding the pieces in a “stitching pony” or “leather clam” or just “clam;” is you never have to worry about awl holes aligning, as can happen when you stab the holes in each piece of leather separately and then sew them together. You really need a stitching pony or Clam to hold the leather pieces together when doing it this way.

The first Video is called “Saddle Stitch in Detail.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGuiha5S2oE
The second Video is called “Saddle Stitch” that explains some things from questions people had. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ue3zBg0bdA

BTW, the “Clam” or “Stitching Clam” is the wood tool that clamps the leather together and is held between the person’s legs. Many years ago I bought an original late 19th century U.S. Army Saddle Makers Clam like this. The Stitching Pony does the same thing in holding the pieces of leather together, though is perpendicular.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

BTW, that was a great tip about using a fine point magic marker when using an overstitch wheel to mark holes in soft leather like buckskin. I used to use a black ink pen until those fine tip markers came out.

One time I used a pencil to mark the holes in an effort to be more HC/PC, but it didn't show up as well and I figured they used Iron Gall Ink for writing in the 18th century anyways..... However, it is hard to imagine using a quill and ink to mark the holes and I did not try to go that far. :haha:

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

...but the layers of leather must be very secure or the punching force will make the layers shift.

For a lot of years that stopped me from using chisels much at all.

About 5 years back I was on a friend's ranch and got to sit in the shade with his elderly dad and a big pitcher of iced tea. Turns out the great old guy was a lifelong leatherworker who'd only quit recently cuzz "the rumatiz" ruined his hands.

Once the tea bottomed out we tottered over into the tack shed, the back of which was his old saddle making shop. Spent so much time in there, my bud's wife got worried when it was clear we were going to miss dinner! :rotf:

She dragged us back out into the sunset and grilled steaks, but not before he spent a long time schooling me on chisels.

His key (and now mine) is to chisel the pieces individually rather than stacking them. Certainly stack them exactly, but only to find and mark the center point of each piece. Then mark for your seam. Next start at the exact center and work your chisels in either direction back to the ends of the seam. When you go to sewing, start at the middle and work in one direction to the end. Then go back and start another run of thread and sew to the other end of the seam.

I was skeptical until I tried it. Now it's my standard for flat seams. Still use awls for awkward spots and for butt joints and 90 degree joints, but the chisels used right are a huge time saver for those flat seams.

 

[ZUG]

I have used both. The punch works just fine but the layers of leather must be very secure or the punching force will make the layers shift. My favorite method if I'm home I will glue and clamp my layers together and hold them with those squeeze type paper clamps. The hole locations will be marked with the wheel and I'll drill the holes on my drill press. (is that cheating? :redface: ) Then I stitch using triangular needles and the two needle technique. I'm no ekeespurt and won't win any beauty prizes with my stuff but it works and my items don't fall apart.
I have used about every type of lace/thread you can think of, including artificial sinew. But in recent times I have come to like hemp. It is strong and can be split into small sizes if you wish. I hide my face when I buy it from stores with pictures of a funny plant in the window. :wink:

This is what I do also except I do not use hemp I use Barbours linen cord - size depends on leather thickness.

 

[Artificer]

I just wish Barbours linen cord was sold in smaller quantities than a whole ball, especially for beginning or small project leather workers and at some place like Tandy.

I have seen it advertised by some vendors on EBay, but I'm never sure if they are selling the real stuff.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

I've been using Crawford's for decades. Yeah, it's prewaxed, but in my world "so what." It comes in a bunch of different colors including natural, plus you can get it in several plies. I use the 4-ply I linked mostly.

Best of all, at the site I linked they sell the stuff by the yard as well as by the spool. There's a whole lot of it on a spool (never measured but I'm betting close to 300 yards) for only $16, but at 60 cents a yard you can buy lots less if you want.

 

[Artificer]

THANK YOU!!!!

I can much better afford $16.00 a ball than 40-45 dollars and have more sizes. Yeah, I know and have stripped the cords from larger sizes before, but it is so much handier having the right cord size.

Who CARES if it is pre-waxed? On some projects, one has to wax the thread occasionally as one goes along the stitching anyway.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

You'll get real fond of that Crawford in a hurry. The 4-ply is pretty fine, but strong. That's what you've seen in most of my photos.

If you want something thicker for looks, you might jump up to the 7-ply. I haven't found a use yet for the 12-ply but I bet it's real hurky for high stress seams.

 

[Artificer]

I was wondering about the actual size of the thread in each number of cords. Thank you.

For TXFlynHog,

Albert probably describes how to measure the length of thread in the book, but in case you don't know, you stretch out the cord along the length you want to sew and add at least 1/3 of the length to 1/2 the length (the latter when you are new to working leather or if you are using thick thread) and then double that length to sew from both sides. I mention this because you can add up the thread for all the lengths of stitching in your project and buy it by the yard, if you wish to save money or only do one project.

BTW, I save cut off sections of thread and use them on smaller projects, since I'm so thrifty/cheap.

However, be careful, because you may find leather working to be very enjoyable and then you go looking for more projects to do....

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Good advice on the length, though I confess that buying those larger spools I can be a bit of a "spendthrift" and waste thread here and there.

Said another way on the length, I was taught using these words- Measure the seam length and multiply by the number of leather layers "plus a smidge." For me the smidge usually works out about right when I estimate 6".

BTW- When using the 4-ply Crawfords I use the small #0 harness needles, but switch up to the large #000 needles for the 7-ply. Long as I'm talking needles, when I use Tandy's hemp thread (really thin but strong) I drop down to the #4 extra small needles.

With any of them, it's good to review Stohlman's technique for scraping and tapering the end of the thread, then locking it to the needles.