oversized front sight dovetail

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

WVAED

40 Cal.
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
375
Reaction score
28
Ok guys, I put a dovetail for my front sight into my barrel. It is perfect, except that it's not. It is just a shade too wide. And to much just to punch it tighter. My question is, Does anyone make an oversized front sight (base). Or if you guys just make them by hand, does anyone have a tutorial? Thanks.
 
Slide a shim in on the angle with the sight. Make it long enough to put it all the way across and enough to not have ant void should the shim move as the sight is pressed in. Then trim the excess.
Or find a sight wider and adjust the dovetail.
 
Shim with flattened copper wire as show in the drawing. By flattening in a taper you can get a super tight fit and still drive the sight into the slot. I suppose you could also use soft iron wire too. IF you put a shim under the base you get a gap under
sight.JPG
the blade.
 
If it’s not too much oversize you can lay a socket across it & give it a couple light taps with a small hammer to tighten it up enough to hold it tight.

Also if it’s just slightly loose you can take a punch & punch up divots in the bottom of the dovetail where it won’t be seen to raise enough metal to get a tight fit.
 
Thanks guys, great ideas, I may try the flattened copper wire if i can't get an oversized base. Nice picture, really made it simple.
 
Track of the Wolf has numerous over-sized front sight bases.
Some are up to .755" wide.--->>> https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?search=front sight blade

I also found youtube videos that show brazing methods that could be used to add material on to a sight base to make it larger if needed.
I think the measurement is the length not the width. It seems backwards but i think that is the way it is measured. The length is .360 or .370 in most. I have found a few at i think .380 or .385. I ordered a couple of them. I will see if one of them will fit. Also the depth of the sight i tried to inlet was .90, so It needs to also have the same thickness or more so I can file it down some.
 
I found a couple on track that were .464 long and plenty thick enough. That will certainly work, If i don't screw something else up.
 
A photo of the sight in the barrel dove tail would really help. Actually seeing it may give us better ideas for a solution.

You may be OK.

Before the baby is thrown out with the bath water, take a real close look at what you have going on.
Sights are one of those things, that well....sometimes you may have to bludgeon them into submission with....a little bit of grace.o_O

First lets refer to the sight it's self as the... "male".
The barrel slot the...."female".

By far the most common problem with lugs and sights I have encountered is this, The male tends to ride high in the female slot.
Reason... Most triangle files unless they are a specialized dove tail file, have a flat edge(about a mil or so). What happens here is at the base or the corners of the female slot, they are blunted. The corners of the male piece are sharp. The sharp corners of the male do not fit the blunt edges of the female slot. This causes the male piece to ride high as the sharp corners of the male piece will not fit the corners of the female slot.
Solution...
File the sharp edges of the male piece to fit the blunted corners of the female slot. It does not take much. Just a stroke or two.
A very easy mistake to make in fitting the male piece to the female slot is to open up the female slot when actually it's the corners of the male piece that's causing the problem. What you wind up with, is too big of a female slot....When the male corners finally fit...The whole female slot is too big.

You still have some adjustments here. If the male piece is copper or brass, you have a good bit of adjustment. Iron can be adjusted but for a big "adjustment" you may need heat.

Option # 1. Adjusting the soft copper/brass male sight base while it's in the female slot...
With a brass drift (you may want several I have 2 a really big one and a smaller one that I have ground for this an other purposes on a grinder. My small one is made from a hardware store brass rod maybe a little larger in diameter than a #2 pencil. I ground the round edges flat on one side...it looks a lot like a flathead screw driver but the "blade" is larger. This allows me to get next to the sight blade.)
With this drift I tap the top of the male sight base. If I'm real close, I can move enough brass or copper to better fill up the female slot. I tap next to the sight blade.....an all over the top of the male base.
This is one of those things that's pretty straight forward to do but incredibly hard to describe. You may....may have to hold your mouth just right while doing this.

So you have peened it(the male base) with a brass drift...it has filled the female slot pretty well but there's still some daylight.....
With that same brass drift you can work on the top "wings" of the female slot. Getting there....? Really close.
You can finish it off with a steel punch. Punch 4 maybe even 8 dots....2 to 4 on each side of the sight blade to lock it in the female slot.

Well you can see that this is not going to work...you have too far to go so....

Option # 2. Working the male sight base off of the rifle...

In a vise or with a vise hand vise combo go to work peening the base of the male piece... working on the top and the bottom. Expand it where it needs to be expanded. You can use a punch on the bottom side and even on the oblique sides that's covered by the "wings" of the female slot. What you are trying to do is displace metal to fill up the female slot.

Option 1....Option 2....Option 1...Option 2..... Back and fourth....back and fourth....Clean up the male piece with a file from time to time ....let the witness marks tell you where. Go slow be patient and maybe it will submit.

Option 3. Make a new sight base or whole new sight.(the Track oversize male sight base may work well here).
With a chunk of brass or copper....make a new male piece that fits the slot. The building books (the usual suspects) have instructions for making a sight. Jack Brooks on his page has a tutorial on making a barely corn sight out of sheet brass.

In my opinion....making an oversized male dovetail that actually fits the slot is a much cleaner and better option than trying to solder a teeny copper or brass shim into the female. It's a good theory but I do not know how well it would work out.
 
A photo of the sight in the barrel dove tail would really help. Actually seeing it may give us better ideas for a solution.

You may be OK.

Before the baby is thrown out with the bath water, take a real close look at what you have going on.
Sights are one of those things, that well....sometimes you may have to bludgeon them into submission with....a little bit of grace.o_O

First lets refer to the sight it's self as the... "male".
The barrel slot the...."female".

By far the most common problem with lugs and sights I have encountered is this, The male tends to ride high in the female slot.
Reason... Most triangle files unless they are a specialized dove tail file, have a flat edge(about a mil or so). What happens here is at the base or the corners of the female slot, they are blunted. The corners of the male piece are sharp. The sharp corners of the male do not fit the blunt edges of the female slot. This causes the male piece to ride high as the sharp corners of the male piece will not fit the corners of the female slot.
Solution...
File the sharp edges of the male piece to fit the blunted corners of the female slot. It does not take much. Just a stroke or two.
A very easy mistake to make in fitting the male piece to the female slot is to open up the female slot when actually it's the corners of the male piece that's causing the problem. What you wind up with, is too big of a female slot....When the male corners finally fit...The whole female slot is too big.

You still have some adjustments here. If the male piece is copper or brass, you have a good bit of adjustment. Iron can be adjusted but for a big "adjustment" you may need heat.

Option # 1. Adjusting the soft copper/brass male sight base while it's in the female slot...
With a brass drift (you may want several I have 2 a really big one and a smaller one that I have ground for this an other purposes on a grinder. My small one is made from a hardware store brass rod maybe a little larger in diameter than a #2 pencil. I ground the round edges flat on one side...it looks a lot like a flathead screw driver but the "blade" is larger. This allows me to get next to the sight blade.)
With this drift I tap the top of the male sight base. If I'm real close, I can move enough brass or copper to better fill up the female slot. I tap next to the sight blade.....an all over the top of the male base.
This is one of those things that's pretty straight forward to do but incredibly hard to describe. You may....may have to hold your mouth just right while doing this.

So you have peened it(the male base) with a brass drift...it has filled the female slot pretty well but there's still some daylight.....
With that same brass drift you can work on the top "wings" of the female slot. Getting there....? Really close.
You can finish it off with a steel punch. Punch 4 maybe even 8 dots....2 to 4 on each side of the sight blade to lock it in the female slot.

Well you can see that this is not going to work...you have too far to go so....

Option # 2. Working the male sight base off of the rifle...

In a vise or with a vise hand vise combo go to work peening the base of the male piece... working on the top and the bottom. Expand it where it needs to be expanded. You can use a punch on the bottom side and even on the oblique sides that's covered by the "wings" of the female slot. What you are trying to do is displace metal to fill up the female slot.

Option 1....Option 2....Option 1...Option 2..... Back and fourth....back and fourth....Clean up the male piece with a file from time to time ....let the witness marks tell you where. Go slow be patient and maybe it will submit.

Option 3. Make a new sight base or whole new sight.(the Track oversize male sight base may work well here).
With a chunk of brass or copper....make a new male piece that fits the slot. The building books (the usual suspects) have instructions for making a sight. Jack Brooks on his page has a tutorial on making a barely corn sight out of sheet brass.

In my opinion....making an oversized male dovetail that actually fits the slot is a much cleaner and better option than trying to solder a teeny copper or brass shim into the female. It's a good theory but I do not know how well it would work out.
Thanks friend, very informative. You taught me something about my file that I never realized. I have a three corner file that I made safe on two sides. It is a hair wide and the corners are not sharp, so as to make a clean sharp corner in my dovetails. I never realized this. I believe it happened to me exactly as you described. Thanks. I have a lot to learn and am learning everyday. Ed
 
I peened the sight base. I put it in my vise with the blade down, took a small ball peen hammer and peened the base to move some metal. I ended up filing the sharp corners of the sight base a little more rounded to match the dovetail. I had to work it a couple of times. I love learning these things. The sight looks perfect (at least to me). I am so thankful for the wealth of experience and knowledge on this forum. Thanks guys. Ed
 
Make a new one that fits....they're not all that difficult to make ....good practice. Shims can get lost .

The front sight that's pictured is all steel except for the soldered in sterling silver insert. Composed of 2 pieces, the base has a slot filed in to accept the blade which has a round filed on that fits into a hole in the base and is then riveted. Except for the silver insert, no heat was applied. .....Fred

P1010013.JPG
 
Ok guys, I put a dovetail for my front sight into my barrel. It is perfect, except that it's not. It is just a shade too wide. And to much just to punch it tighter. My question is, Does anyone make an oversized front sight (base). Or if you guys just make them by hand, does anyone have a tutorial? Thanks.

I had a similar situation and fixed it with a piece from a brass feeler gauge set. My sight was brass and I had several feeler gauges around so I used the brass gauges. I measured the gap and was lucky enough to be able to select a gauge that was a little more than 0.001 thicker than what I had to make up. I soldered it to the front bevel on my sight base and them trimmed it to match the base. You can't see the joint and the fit was tight enough that I had to use a small brass hammer and drift to install the sight yet it didn't scratch the shim.

John
 
I peened the sight base. I put it in my vise with the blade down, took a small ball peen hammer and peened the base to move some metal. I ended up filing the sharp corners of the sight base a little more rounded to match the dovetail. I had to work it a couple of times. I love learning these things. The sight looks perfect (at least to me). I am so thankful for the wealth of experience and knowledge on this forum. Thanks guys. Ed
Great!! :)

Put those skills in your mental toolbox. You'll need them again.
Example....
Working on a Chamber's Lancaster, I goofed on the sideplate ilnet. (this is an example of the challenges of a pre inlet stock...Honestly in that case the 90%??inlet:rolleyes: was a detriment..long story short...it fit on the top but I missed it on the bottom.) The sideplate had to visit the anvil and ....grow a little. Filed and cleaned up....disaster avoided.

Missing the trigger....:oops:

The difference between a great, crisp simple trigger and a really crappy one is so close, it's not even funny.
Working on the trigger blade...marking fitting all that jazz...I make the big cut and file...fit, pin and assemble. I have this long long lazy throw of the trigger... it functions but it's crap. I missed.
Close Mister but.....No Cigar!

Out comes the trigger, it visits the anvil and the blade grows with some delicate persuasion from a light cross peen. Clean it it up, reassemble and pin...Bingo! It's crisp...just right with no structural integrity lost..

Here's the thing. If you work with care and your'e almost there....most of the time you make it up. Not always, sometimes you'll have to do a task over with new parts but most of the time you can overcome minor fit issues.
 
Make a new one that fits....they're not all that difficult to make ....good practice. Shims can get lost .

The front sight that's pictured is all steel except for the soldered in sterling silver insert. Composed of 2 pieces, the base has a slot filed in to accept the blade which has a round filed on that fits into a hole in the base and is then riveted. Except for the silver insert, no heat was applied. .....Fred

View attachment 5521

Great Looking sight!

Do you have a pic of one prior too reveting them together,
I’m not sure I’m understanding the round filed into the blade...

Thanks
 
Learn to make your front sights and the dovetail will never be oversize or undersize as you will build the sight to fit the dove tail.
I make my front sights with a mechanical lock, no brazing or welding required. I normally use a brass base and a steel blade.
Example; I made a new rear sight and needed a taller front sight. The first photo is the unfinished front sight waiting for me to sight in the rifle.
The second photo is after sighting in and a little trimming up. Later on I will finish cleaning it all up.
SS850040-800x600.jpg

SS850095-1024x768.jpg
 
Back
Top