Oxidized Balls.

[doubleset]

We now live in a time when many (?most?) children in our society are mollycoddled. My parents would likely be in trouble today for the things I was allowed to do back then in the 1950's.

Well, times have changed, and there are more dangers to children who may be off on their own than there used to be -- at least certainly in the urban areas. I frequently think back and wonder how my mother stood the freedoms she and my father gave my sister and me. During the summers I was frequently off with a friend fishing several miles of a local creek. My parents had only a vague idea of where we were, and we would just get on our bikes and ride miles just outside of town to the stream, fish up and down it, and then ride home. When I was a bit older, a friend and I for a while got into making black power -- of sorts: just grinding the basic materials and mixing them together dry. Hey, it works -- sort of. Good enough to make a canon out of a piece of pipe and fire D cells. I'm lucky I still have all my appendages. But we never blew anything up -- at least nothing that hurt us.

My kids were the same way growing up in NC. Too young to drive, they'd walk the 3 miles to town, and then back -- the three of them (two boys and a girl). One time (ages 7, 10, and 12, I think), they were hiking home from town and got picked up by the Sheriff (lived a few miles from us). I think he was concerned about them walking along the highway, but they were careful and fully off the shoulder. He just gave them a ride home, never said anything to us, and the kids just reported that they'd got a ride home from the Sheriff.

Even before then, when we were living in the Chicago suburb of Wheaton, the boys would get on their bikes and ride a couple of miles to fish some ponds. They knew enough to stay off the busy streets and take to the sidewalks when necessary. Before then, when the two of them were 8 and 10 (or younger) and we lived in Zion, they'd walk down to a big park not far from us (a commuter RR station was there as well) and fish a big pond. One time the older one caught a carp that was so big he couldn't even bring it home. We worried about them from time to time, but they knew what to do and they were together.

Now ... I don't know. There are more really strange people running loose and willing to do really strange and hideous things. Or so it seems. Maybe they were always there and the reporting just wasn't as good as in the new multi-media age. But now, if I had kids that age, I'd worry about them more no matter where we lived.

 

[doubleset]

So there is no reason to have different opinions ...

Yes, agreed. With one exception. The white substance that forms on the lead balls we shoot is not lead oxide. It is a carbonate of lead -- used for centuries in pigments. But what does it matter for our purposes whether it's an oxide or a carbonate, eh?

 

[Joemolf]

david w, thank you for the rapid reply to my question. as I stated I have never heard of it. I will now buy some of the product for sure. thanks again toot.

When I lived in Florida The Sebastian Shooting Range had it or something similar in the mens room for washing. That was a beautiful range; state ran too!

 

[nit wit]

WD-40 is probably as dangerous as lead. My friends sister is an attorney for the company. I've handled lead for 50 years with no ill effect.
Nit Wit

 

[toot]

I'm too old to give a dern what color my lead balls are. I dont have enough years left for it to catch me.

you are not in the age range of age group group alone!

 

[toot]

would rolling the fuzzy coated balls in LEE ALOX take care of it?

 

[Whughett]

So there is no reason to have different opinions: the only problem is the contact with the mouth and the only contact with the hands is not really a problem as long as one does not suck one's fingers or that one handles the bullets, that one takes the patches to suck them in the mouth: in this case one comes back to the children who scratched the walls to eat the sweet paint......
For the rest, it was only a question of questioning the answer I had given concerning the dissolution of this white lead oxide powder by simply boiling it with hot vinegar by explaining why hot vinegar forms or dissolves this oxide. I treated many bullets in this way and always with success.
It was still necessary to explain the why of the how and therefore to speak about oxides (what they are and how they are formed) and their use as well as lead poisoning to make me understand......
It is also said that sapa used as a sweetener precipitated the fall of the Roman Empire. I doubt that this is the most profound reason or the only one, but there may have been a small influence...

WHAT!

 

[Greenjoytj]

I don’t cast balls often but when I do I cast a big supply of several hundred balls to last me for a few years.
Each ball is inspected for a quality appearance, bad ones are culled for remelting.
Each ball is weighed, if off weight by more than 1.1 grains its culled for remelting.
Every good ball gets a light smearing with a quality car paste wax prior to long term storage.
The wax coat prevents the formation of the white fuzzy oxide along with keep the balls in an air tight containers (Walmart grade food saver containers) to limit their exposure to the oxygen in the air.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I SPRAYED WD-40 on my old crusty / fuzzy balls and it worked. thanks!

did it burn?

 

[SPQR70AD]

would rolling the fuzzy coated balls in LEE ALOX take care of it?

best way to get the fuzz off is to shoot the ball

 

[pmccoywss]

Any store which handles stained glass supplies (eg Hobby Lobby) should have de-lead soap. A stained glass business with classes for folks to do satined glass may also have scrap lead came to give away (makes great round balls).

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes, agreed. With one exception. The white substance that forms on the lead balls we shoot is not lead oxide. It is a carbonate of lead -- used for centuries in pigments. But what does it matter for our purposes whether it's an oxide or a carbonate, eh?

Nope... poisoned is poisoned...,

As a previous poster mentioned, it's the old white pigment used in paint, and when that paint chipped and little kids ingested the chips, that's where the lead poisoning came from. Lead Carbonate apparently has a slightly sweet taste.

Old, indoor target ranges because they quite often had an armored plate back stop with inadequate ventilation, and lead alloy projectiles were used, the bullets would splatter on impact down range, and tiny fragments of lead would result. Clean up the range with a broom at the end of the day or once a week, and a nice cloud of lead carbonate dust is created. It's on one's shoes and trousers, and if inhaled..., the sinus drains into the stomach and voila, lead is into the person. Over time this can accumulate.

Folks handling straight lead, it's much harder to assimilate into the human, but for some professions, such as plumber, they wipe their hands having lead on a piece of cloth, a rag, a pants leg, a shirt, and when that lead carbonates, there is the problem.

My employer even has a "sticky" patch installed at the entrance/exit to the target range to help mitigate any of the users from taking tiny bits of lead home on the treads of the shooter's shoes.

LD

 

[flntlokr]

In another thread (I didn't want to hijack it), a poster warned a new shooter to wear rubber (or some kind of) gloves before handling lead balls that had white oxidation on them.
Is the oxidation dangerous, more so than just the lead balls it is on?
What are the concerns?

One of my friends powder coats his bullets and (round) balls. Different colours for different calibres. Keeps the oxides contained, and they are totally safe to handle. Looks like he is loading candy. He says that bullets so treated don't require lubrication, but I don't know if that would apply for bp loads.

 

[jimhallam]

The white is lead oxide (like rusty lead). It picks up and transfers very easily, but is easily removed in a rock tumbler or a brass cartridge tumbler. Do wash hands well after handling the balls - lead is a poison.

Depends upon where you live! It also contains some lead carbonate ---- the best example is church roofs, which in rural areas are greenish, due to copper carbonate and in urban areas - especially where people burned coal or wood -- they have a bluish hue due to copper sulphate. (Guess who used to teach chemistry!)

 

[doubleset]

(Guess who used to teach chemistry!)

Great! Which oxides of lead are white? And what exactly are their chemical formulas?

 

[hanshi]

I've been casting lead ball/bullets for over 56 years and never much worried about lead contamination. I washed my hands before I ate, drank or rubbed at my face. I've had projectiles get the white fuzzies and either washed, WD40 them or both. Okay then, yes I do know quite a few who claim I wasn't as careful as I claimed to be and show , AHEM, the effects.

IMO, casting is safe and shooting is safe. Just don't put them in your mouth to clean them, suck your fingers after handling or sniff at them too much. They are very toxic, however, and any creature you shoot with them will DIE! That's right; and if you don't believe it just shoot a deer with one of those fuzzy, white lead balls and see what happens.

All seriousness aside, adults have little to be concerned about when handling lead. It's just that children are in danger handling it especially without supervision. Simply remember to always be aware.

 

[Billy Boy]

Just spray some WD-40 on those crusty balls of yours. Roll them around on an old rag and the crusty will come right off.

I tumble lube mine with liquid Alox. No white stuff forms, no leading in my smoothie, shoot most of my lead out of revolvers, they also ram into the chambers a little easier. I can do stuff like this and blame it on the aging process…

 

[sheriff john]

Millions of .22 rounds had" wax" as the preservative for lead bullets back in the day, as did exposed lead centerfire ammo. Over time, the tendency to pick up dirt was overcome by various coatings. Fooling with antique cartridges, it easy to see those without protection turned plumb white - even in factory boxes. Always been a problem. In worst cases, details in the exposed bullets have disappeared.

Biting on a bullet while an army surgeon amputated a limb - probably didn't really care if that bullet betwist your molars was oxidized.

 

[BlazingIron]

did it burn?

 

[Whitworth]

Lead oxide forms on lead exposed to the atmosphere. Civil war bullets are covered with lead carbonate which forms when the lead is in the ground. Rain water mixes with organic material in the soil and forms a weak carbonic acid which reacts with the lead turning it white. They come out of the ground with a white coating that is very strongly chemically attached. That white doesn't come off easily, you can't wash it off, WD 40 does nothing to it and when handling them nothing flakes off. Artist white pigment lead was produced many ways but all involved an acid treatment. I have some 36s cast up in the early 80's that never touched the ground that are all white and flakey with lead oxide. They look great in a cased display, just don't touch them.