P1853 valuation

[mundus]

Hi everyone,

I received an offer today to purchase such an Enfield 1853 in very good condition. I wonder if the price I managed to negotiate is fair - $2600.

It is possible to shoot with it and it is quite accurate.

here some photos of that Enfield (dark one):



What do you think guys ?

 

[Stantheman86]

P53's in nice condition are almost $3000 rifles now?

 

[TreeMan]

That rifle is in very good condition. The first question I’d ask here is if it truly is an authentic “original” and not a defarbed reproduction. There are some excellent fakes out there.

 

[mundus]

I have no doubt that the rifle is genuine. It came from a well-known enfield rifles expert. The numbers on the barrel, the stock, the wood worn also indicate this. However, I know the market poorly so I don't know if such a price is okay.

 

[PastorB]

That rifle is in very good condition. I am in agreement with a previous post, I would be very skeptical about its authenticity. Not saying it is a fake, as I have no way of determining from online pics, but I have very rarely, if ever, seen one in such fine condition. I know of a reputable seller with impeccable credentials, who recently sold a very good Enfield 1853, Id'd to a particular Confederate soldier with proof, that sold in for a few hundred less than the deal you have negotiated. If you are confident it is legit, $2600 is not outlandish for such fine condition, but it is no bargain either. I own and shoot on a regular basis pre-Civil War muskets, and know others fellas who do so also. I've never seen an authentic musket in such immaculate condition, except in a museum. You have either found a rare treasure, or are fixing to get snookered. Even "experts" have been fooled. If you are ever in Union City, TN, check out the fake guns that Turner Kirkland purchased that he thought were real, and later found out they were frauds. I guessing he saw more real guns in his life than 99.999% of us, and still got taken on occasion.

 

[Stantheman86]

The market for genuine rifle-muskets is soft anymore, people aren't beating down doors for these even if they have provenance.

The younger crowd for the most part doesn't care about this stuff anymore and these rifles change hands among older collectors.

If anyone wants a "Civil War gun" they'll just buy a repro. A Parker-Hale P53 is still about $1000-1500 and it's the next best thing to a real one plus it's more shootable.

I know a guy who's been trying to sell a Charleville musket for $4000 for years, it was used in the Revolution apparently, I'm thinking, no one wants to pay for this stuff anymore.

Few people are looking for high end safe queens to appreciate for historical value

I bought a bored smooth P53 that was "in a Tennessee farm house and was carried home by a Confederate veteran" in 2007 for $1000 and I gave it to my Dad as a mantle piece.

 

[satwel]

The market for genuine rifle-muskets is soft anymore, people aren't beating down doors for these even if they have provenance.

The younger crowd for the most part doesn't care about this stuff anymore and these rifles change hands among older collectors.

If anyone wants a "Civil War gun" they'll just buy a repro. A Parker-Hale P53 is still about $1000-1500 and it's the next best thing to a real one plus it's more shootable.

I know a guy who's been trying to sell a Charleville musket for $4000 for years, it was used in the Revolution apparently, I'm thinking, no one wants to pay for this stuff anymore.

Few people are looking for high end safe queens to appreciate for historical value

I bought a bored smooth P53 that was "in a Tennessee farm house and was carried home by a Confederate veteran" in 2007 for $1000 and I gave it to my Dad as a mantle piece.

I see posts similar to this one all the time. While I agree with the logic behind them, I have yet to see any softening of auction prices when it comes to CW firearms. I spend a lot of time monitoring firearm auction results and I have to say prices still seem to be rising though not as dramatically as they once were.

 

[TFoley]

I'll be totally honest and state that having handled the actual sealed Pattern examples of the P53 in the MoD Pattern Room, only those unfired examples come near this example we are seeing here.

Not wishing to denigrate the homeland of the OP in any way, but Poland is not the place that I would have expected to have found such a rifle, let alone in such exemplary condition. The OP admits his lack of knowledge, but nevertheless states that he is happy with the 'numbers' - what numbers are they? And where are they to be found?

I would want to see it out of the stock before my hand went into my pocket - making fakes out of good quality replicas is a lucrative business.

I would certainly want to have cast-iron provenance before handing over my hard-earned cash.

By way of comparison, the top rifle is a genuine converted rifle of that era - note the state and colouration of the wood and metal -
and bottom is a fifty-year-old P-H replica - again, note the wood colour.

 

[mundus]

I mean numbers on barrel,stock, bands. Is imgur working?
However, I backed out of the purchase. The price is too high for me. I need to look for something cheaper and not necessarily original.

I'll be totally honest and state that having handled the actual sealed Pattern examples of the P53 in the MoD Pattern Room, only those unfired examples come near this example we are seeing here.

Not wishing to denigrate the homeland of the OP in any way, but Poland is not the place that I would have expected to have found such a rifle, let alone in such exemplary condition. The OP admits his lack of knowledge, but nevertheless states that he is happy with the 'numbers' - what numbers are they? And where are they to be found?

I would want to see it out of the stock before my hand went into my pocket - making fakes out of good quality replicas is a lucrative business.

I would certainly want to have cast-iron provenance before handing over my hard-earned cash.

By way of comparison, the top rifle is a genuine converted rifle of that era - note the state and colouration of the wood and metal -
and bottom is a fifty-year-old P-H replica - again, note the wood colour.

View attachment 170797

 

[TFoley]

I'm sure that imgur works for many, but not for me. I get this instead - 残念ながら、このプログラムにコンピューターでアクセスできません。別のファイル形式を試してください

Foist again by my Japanese computer. Dang.

There is no doubt in my mind that you would be more than satisfied with a Parker-Hale P58 - so-called short rifle. The heavy barrel makes it a very accurate shooter and although they are not easy to find, they might cost you less than half of what you proposed to shell out.

 

[Stantheman86]

Get something you can actually shoot, life is short

Sure that "original " was shootable but for how long and really who wants to risk a parts failure on a minty original by putting 1000s of rounds through it

+1 find a Parker-Hale P58 and enjoy life, without having to worry about getting faked out , scammed or shooting a museum piece with an Ordnance Iron barrel