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Any update?
I read the cliff notes version, I'm OK. The actual law no.....
I read the cliff notes version, I'm OK. The actual law no.....
PA allowing Peep sights this year?
- Thread starter BigBoreBLR
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Patocazador
54 Cal.
I know nothing of Pa.laws but the prohibition of peep sights seems ridiculous.
I have never shot a gun with peep sights, and while we don't think of them as a traditional ml thing I can see where it would serve an advantage to having a good clean kill. I have seen ol boys with shades sights and such I just can't get my breechcloth in a wad over them. I may need them some day myself, I do wear bifocals with photo grey lenses. There is apron in my kit and a modern first aid kit.
A peep won't add an inch to the range, or get you a quicker second shot. Such a rule would be of no concern to me. Many have joined our sport after buying an inline.
A peep won't add an inch to the range, or get you a quicker second shot. Such a rule would be of no concern to me. Many have joined our sport after buying an inline.
zimmerstutzen
70 Cal.
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Some of the more elderly shooters find they can no longer "focus" on a standard rear sight due to aging eyes. A peep can eleviate the problem.
The rationale behind the ban, for 40 years that the flint season existed, was to limit the flint guns to pre-1800 style traditional flintlocks. That original concept has been vastly eroded by gradual step by step giving way to more dmodern concepts. Originally, the guns had to fire round balls. That limitation was removed about 20 years ago. About 2008, the words originally permitted "open sights only" That prohibition against peep sights was removed with great fan fare as a "help" to aging hunters. Then about 2011, the Commission amended part of the law and for some inexplicable reason (probably due to a staff lawyer's screw up, the phrase "open sights only" was put back into the regulation. Then we had the ridiculous situation that the regulations prohibited peep sights but the Commission still advised mistakenly that peep sights were legal. When asked about it, one of the staff lawyers replied that "open sights are peep sights" Well for the prior 40 years peep sights were officially NOT open sights. I suspect it was a case of a staff lawyer providing language for a regulation when he knew nothing about the subject.
Anyway, the commission recently changed the language to permit peep sights again.
As another example of not knowing what they are doing, the commission for years (byt not in wirting) considered cap and ball revolvers as muzzle loaders, yet the regulation definition expressly said they were not. Then their position changed, to them being neither muzzle loader, rim fire or centerfire, which made them illegal for hunting, A few weeks later, they indicated that cap and ball revolvers were center fire for purposes of the hunting law. A recent change to the definition of muzzle loader now includes a breech loader that uses loose powder and ball. But cap and ball revolvers are not breech loaders either. So I guess they are still centerfire. I keep an old remington cap box that is labeled "Center fire" just as proof that my cap and ball revolvers will be legal the same as any centerfire pistol.
The rationale behind the ban, for 40 years that the flint season existed, was to limit the flint guns to pre-1800 style traditional flintlocks. That original concept has been vastly eroded by gradual step by step giving way to more dmodern concepts. Originally, the guns had to fire round balls. That limitation was removed about 20 years ago. About 2008, the words originally permitted "open sights only" That prohibition against peep sights was removed with great fan fare as a "help" to aging hunters. Then about 2011, the Commission amended part of the law and for some inexplicable reason (probably due to a staff lawyer's screw up, the phrase "open sights only" was put back into the regulation. Then we had the ridiculous situation that the regulations prohibited peep sights but the Commission still advised mistakenly that peep sights were legal. When asked about it, one of the staff lawyers replied that "open sights are peep sights" Well for the prior 40 years peep sights were officially NOT open sights. I suspect it was a case of a staff lawyer providing language for a regulation when he knew nothing about the subject.
Anyway, the commission recently changed the language to permit peep sights again.
As another example of not knowing what they are doing, the commission for years (byt not in wirting) considered cap and ball revolvers as muzzle loaders, yet the regulation definition expressly said they were not. Then their position changed, to them being neither muzzle loader, rim fire or centerfire, which made them illegal for hunting, A few weeks later, they indicated that cap and ball revolvers were center fire for purposes of the hunting law. A recent change to the definition of muzzle loader now includes a breech loader that uses loose powder and ball. But cap and ball revolvers are not breech loaders either. So I guess they are still centerfire. I keep an old remington cap box that is labeled "Center fire" just as proof that my cap and ball revolvers will be legal the same as any centerfire pistol.
imo, I believe these gradual changes are to make it easier for those hunters that can't "get it done" during the other seasons and are looking to fill their tag as a last ditch effort! peep sights, fiber optic sights, s.s. barrels, plastic stocks, powder pellets, sabot jacketed bullets ect, ect. they will continues to molest and ruin our traditional season until inlines are allowed. shame on our commissioners for not preserving this wonderful season!
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I love these traditional guns.
However, the laws of the land should not meant to be arbitrary.
We have enough trouble as a group with keeping hunting alive and well in PA, or any state for that matter.
I had a Thompson center firestorm for about a week. The trigger needed a hammer for it to fire. It was like 15+ lbs of pull to fire....
Quickly got traded for a lyman GPR 54 cal flinter.....
However, the laws of the land should not meant to be arbitrary.
We have enough trouble as a group with keeping hunting alive and well in PA, or any state for that matter.
I had a Thompson center firestorm for about a week. The trigger needed a hammer for it to fire. It was like 15+ lbs of pull to fire....
Quickly got traded for a lyman GPR 54 cal flinter.....
Patocazador
54 Cal.
Let's face it, traditional muzzleloading is a dying sport. The hunters who use these guns are getting older .. much older. Is it better to handicap these hunters and produce gutshot deer that die a day or two later in a creek or allow a simple peep hole to collimate the sight picture?
Besides, it wouldn't have taken much of a gunsmith in 1700 to produce a simple peep .. and I'm sure they did.
Besides, it wouldn't have taken much of a gunsmith in 1700 to produce a simple peep .. and I'm sure they did.
unlike Wisconsin, we have a "traditional" season. the intent of that season is traditional firearms/flintlocks of prior to 1800 or similar reproduction of an original. there are ample seasons in place to use modern or altered m/l to take a deer. I,m sorry, I just don't have any time for those that disrespect the season as it was/is intended. get the correct period equipment for that season or hunt one of the others. the season was not intended to be changed for every whiner that can't or won't learn how to use the proper equipment. as for those eye's? at 60 years old they have been bad my whole life, but I have adapted and still put meat in the freezer!
correct, lollipop sights were made and used back in the day, I,m not that up on the exact dates, but they would have been simple thing to make. but that's a lot different than todays peep sights. again, there are seasons in place to use those guns and upgrades.
zimmerstutzen
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I once suggested that PA go to a graduated system of seasons. Start with the traditional archery for the first two weeks, then add in them training wheel bows for two weeks, then add cross bows for two weeks Next would come flint lock for the next two weeks and finally about the beginning of December add modern firearms, inlines and percussion. Come middle of December, start phasing out the weapons in reverse order, every two weeks., so traditional archery would end about late January. For traditional archers, Archery season would be about the same length as now and modern firearms season would be the same two weeks. The more traditional and primitive the weapon, the longer the season for deer.
I agree about the corruption of the original intent for the seasons. Flint lock season was meant for a few die hards to celebrate Pennsylvania's link to the long rifle. Never meant as a deer management tool but as a strictly heritage season. Flintlock fans agreed to the worst part of the winter for hunting so they did not have to share the woods with the "pumpkin army"
I agree about the corruption of the original intent for the seasons. Flint lock season was meant for a few die hards to celebrate Pennsylvania's link to the long rifle. Never meant as a deer management tool but as a strictly heritage season. Flintlock fans agreed to the worst part of the winter for hunting so they did not have to share the woods with the "pumpkin army"
