PA flintlock late season flintlock hunters

[Campbell]

For the sake of the animal, practice is extremely essential. If you miss more than you should, that animal has a good chance of being wounded and dying a miserable death. Do yourself and that animal a favor, practice until you are good enough to hit that kill zone and know your limitation on distance.

Exactly. It doesn’t matter if you’re using a centerfire rifle or an atlatl, if you’re going to kill an animal you should be competent with your weapon and confident in your ability to hit the vitals before you take the shot.

 

[user 53891]

I hope you don't think I'm a purist.
I just am not going to take time and effort of going to the woods, of getting a deer into range and then maybe get an opportunity and lastly hope my gun goes off. So I made it a priority to learn what it takes to make a gun go off everytime and how to shoot tight groups offhand, so that if they stop within 50, it's nighty night bucko haha

You are so correct Juniata! We have to many hunters out there that couldn't hit the side of a barn because they buy a gun and think it's going to hit where they point it. If you want to hunt with an ML it takes practice, working up the proper load, the proper bullet, etc.

 

[oldwood]

I don't charge folks , when I fix , and help them learn about m/l guns. Love to fix m/l flint deer rifles , that have run to their "end of life" of abuse , by their non mechanical minded owners. One guy thinks I'm some kind of a m/l sorcerer, that if he brings me his rifle and the lock had a gap between the lock bolster and barrel , all I have to do is inlet the lock plate a touch, until the lock bolster is tight w/ the barrel , then wire wheel the rust from the lock internals , and lube the lock , then properly tighten the lock bolts to keep the ignition fire out of the lock mortise. Sometimes I can't keep from laughing at the level of mechanical ineptitude displayed . I fix stuff for the shear level of personal entertainment value , gained from the experience.
This year , Iv'e concluded , I can't stand the cold like I used to , so the m/l shop will have to do for entertainment. Not such a bad thing........oldwood

 

[bushytail]

I agree that a lot of people should do more shooting. Experiment with different loads, etc. It’s all fun. I shoot about 400 shots (give o take a little) a year. Should I shoot more? Probably. But, I think not everyone can afford or have the time (for various reasons) to shoot all year. For some, powder, patches, balls, flints, caps can be expensive for them. Everyone has different incomes. For those that can, that’s great. I’m down to one flintlock now. I’m gonna try to shoot more this year.

 

[user 53891]

I agree that a lot of people should do more shooting. Experiment with different loads, etc. It’s all fun. I shoot about 400 shots (give o take a little) a year. Should I shoot more? Probably. But, I think not everyone can afford or have the time (for various reasons) to shoot all year. For some, powder, patches, balls, flints, caps can be expensive for them. Everyone has different incomes. For those that can, that’s great. I’m down to one flintlock now. I’m gonna try to shoot more this year.

Some of what you say may be true. However, if you can't afford powder, patches, projectiles, then you probably shouldn't be hunting either. If you don't have the time to responsibly practice shooting, why take a chance on maiming an animal?

 

[2 shots]

Some of what you say may be true. However, if you can't afford powder, patches, projectiles, then you probably shouldn't be hunting either. If you don't have the time to responsibly practice shooting, why take a chance on maiming an animal?

very well said. if you cant afford to shoot enough to become proficient with your weapon of choice then just shoot at paper till the time comes when you can shoot well. meantime stay out of the woods , you should not be shooting at game.

 

[bushytail]

Also, I feel you shouldn’t shoot past your comfort zone. If you can’t shoot nice groups past 30 yrds, don’t shoot at animals past 30yrds. That’s where practice will tell you how far you can or cannot shoot at animals.

 

[Juniata]

Also, I feel you shouldn’t shoot past your comfort zone. If you can’t shoot nice groups past 30 yrds, don’t shoot at animals past 30yrds. That’s where practice will tell you how far you can or cannot shoot at animals.

I practice out to 100 offhand and I feel I can shoot good even that far. Very confident if rested.
I shoot my .58 out to 100 and felt confident. Targets don't give me the jitters though. I missed one at 100 in late season, and I was rested. Can't practice shooting with nerves unless you shoot competitively! Ha

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I have been watching a lot more YouTube videos this winter and seem to be watching every PA flintlock hunt that is posted. Most of the guys are carrying a TC or CVA type gun, what surprises me is the huge number of klatches these guys have, it seems like they have two or three klatches to every successful ignition. They all say "well. that flintlock hunting" when they have a klatch.

I can tell they love the drives and the hunting but appear to be not that much up on what it takes to get a flintlock to work. When I started out with a TC flintlock I had the same problem, it wasn't until I started shooting guns with Roller and Siler locks that I learned just what it took to make a flintlock go off reliably every time.

Another thing I notice is they all try to shoot offhand at spooky driven deer, I aways think when I am watching them "there is a tree right next to you lean up against it". I have yet to see anyone carrying cross sticks to shoot off of, their miss rate is about 5 misses to one hit.

Leatherwood Outdoors post a lot of videos, these guys know what they are doing, klatches and misses are few and far between.

Unfortunately, hunting in PA has become more about antlers and venison than actual sport. Post your property and you are a greedy SOB that thinks he owns the deer, Too many consider hunting as sighting in a few shots before the season and going into the woods opening day. So few scout their intended area in spring, summer and fall. My Dad and other hunters spent as many of more hours in the woods before the season as getting their deer during the season. I came home from college to hunt one year. Dad left a map for me of where to be and stand. Said be there at 6 am, I already moved the leaves from the area for you to stand, Opening hour is 6:48, and the deer will come down from the meadow up the mountain about 7:20. Like clockwork. I had my deer hung and skinned in the garage in time to drive my brother to middle school. I spent many hours scouting my areas, even sat on a stool in the woods watching until I could tell the difference between different deer and which doe the bucks followed. When I got my first flintlock, I didn't know crap about shooting one, but two misses later, I was at the range with a Guy that had been building flintlocks for 20 yrs. We spent a few hours with his gun and then with mine. There was also guy there with a new TC flint hawken. The old guy told my the hammer wasn't the right angle to strike the frizzen, and the frizzens weren't the proper hard steel. don't waste my money on one of them. I was given a flint TC Hawken for my Birthday. He had me over to his shop to half sole the frizzen and switch out the touch hole liner.. My Brother now has that gun 50 yrs later and it still shoots fast and reliably. Guys who say, "Well that is Flintlocks for ya" are ignorant craps. My next flintlock was a screwed up custom kit that I paid $40 for. Numrich barrel, chambers lock and single trigger. The old guy help me get things aligned and it was a plain jane hunting rifle, but is shot circles around the production guns my buddies had.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I watched 3 more PA flintlock videos today, same old same-o, klatches, multiple misses and the ever present "the deer didn't look hit when it ran off so I am sure I missed it", hardly any follow-up on the misses.

 

[good ole boy]

I,d rather watch paint peel. I haven’t watched any in years.Their stupidly and constant whispering is too much to stomach.

 

[user 53891]

I watched 3 more PA flintlock videos today, same old same-o, klatches, multiple misses and the ever present "the deer didn't look hit when it ran off so I am sure I missed it", hardly any follow-up on the misses.

Those folks need to have their licenses revoked! More dangerous than a bear.

 

[morehops52]

Having experienced the dreaded klatch with a deer cleanly in my sights, I found a mucky pool of 4f in my pan. After reading here about 2 & 3f (not 4f) having a moisture resistant coating, I've recommended using it in the pan to several late season PA hunters. If I've misstated that someone please correct me.

 

[pamtnman]

I watched 3 more PA flintlock videos today, same old same-o, klatches, multiple misses and the ever present "the deer didn't look hit when it ran off so I am sure I missed it", hardly any follow-up on the misses.

I saw those same videos. It’s distressing. Many of those deer could have been hit. I learned about round balls the hard way, a long slow learning process.

 

[user 53891]

I saw those same videos. It’s distressing. Many of those deer could have been hit. I learned about round balls the hard way, a long slow learning process.

And what is it that YOU learned about round balls??

 

[user 53891]

I,d rather watch paint peel. I haven’t watched any in years.Their stupidly and constant whispering is too much to stomach.

Oh, hell no, then you have to scrape and repaint.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I learned with round balls that I get a pretty good blood trail with a pass through, usually the ball is under the skin on the off side which may provide no blood for the first 30-50 yards then a scant but followable blood trail to the deer. I seldom anchor a deer in place even with my .54 but I try to miss the shoulders or spine for meat preservation.

 

[Juniata]

I learned with round balls that I get a pretty good blood trail with a pass through, usually the ball is under the skin on the off side which may provide no blood for the first 30-50 yards then a scant but followable blood trail to the deer. I seldom anchor a deer in place even with my .54 but I try to miss the shoulders or spine for meat preservation.

I agree, but there is some truth to shooting them through the shoulders to anchor
them rather than not having a good trail to follow and potentially having no meat at all because you can't find it.
I'm with you though even big calibers don't seem to knock them down, but it does help them leak.

 

[pamtnman]

And what is it that YOU learned about round balls??

"YOU"...Sounds kind of accusatory!
Here is my experience. Round balls rarely get me the kinds of blood trails I get with black powder conicals or paper patched bullets, and especially compared to modern centerfire. Smaller round balls get less blood than a .54 round ball, which also doesn't leave a real big trail in my experience. Where I hunt in the deciduous mountain forests of the east, a light blood trail without snow is very difficult to follow. Took me years of hunting with a .45 Pedersoli to figure out I needed to follow up on every shot, that just because the deer ran away with its tail up did not mean it was not hit. And that just because I did not find blood or hair where the deer was standing did not mean I had not hit it and that it was not lying dead 100 yards away. So following up on each shot and walking in the direction of the deer's run is something I now do every time I shoot at a deer with a muzzleloader. It should be a rule of thumb for all muzzleloading hunters, though everyone learns at their own pace. Interestingly, the flintlock or percussion British Sporting Rifle of the 1790s to the 1860s was typically 20 gauge (.62 caliber), 14 gauge, 16 gauge, or 12 gauge (.72 caliber), and that was just for hunting red stag, fallow deer, and roe deer. Similar to the German jaeger rifles, that started at .54 caliber and quickly arrived at .72 caliber round ball. Seems that the European hunters desired to anchor their quarry and not have much time spent on a blood trail. While I have hunted with a .54 flintlock since 2013, I am hoping to have a .62 caliber flintlock in my hands before December this year. It will be based on the British Sporting Rifle design, and yeah, I was even thinking of going to .66 caliber.
And to be fair to muzzleloaders, I have experienced very recently "updated" modern bullet designs out of modern centerfire rifles that left very little blood trail, with me pacing back and forth on the mountain trying to find a deer that is already stone cold dead 75 yards away, such is their ability to mushroom up inside the deer. That also is a disadvantage, and I prefer a pass-through with blood leaking out of both sides.

 

[user 53891]

"YOU"...Sounds kind of accusatory!
Here is my experience. Round balls rarely get me the kinds of blood trails I get with black powder conicals or paper patched bullets, and especially compared to modern centerfire. Smaller round balls get less blood than a .54 round ball, which also doesn't leave a real big trail in my experience. Where I hunt in the deciduous mountain forests of the east, a light blood trail without snow is very difficult to follow. Took me years of hunting with a .45 Pedersoli to figure out I needed to follow up on every shot, that just because the deer ran away with its tail up did not mean it was not hit. And that just because I did not find blood or hair where the deer was standing did not mean I had not hit it and that it was not lying dead 100 yards away. So following up on each shot and walking in the direction of the deer's run is something I now do every time I shoot at a deer with a muzzleloader. It should be a rule of thumb for all muzzleloading hunters, though everyone learns at their own pace. Interestingly, the flintlock or percussion British Sporting Rifle of the 1790s to the 1860s was typically 20 gauge (.62 caliber), 14 gauge, 16 gauge, or 12 gauge (.72 caliber), and that was just for hunting red stag, fallow deer, and roe deer. Similar to the German jaeger rifles, that started at .54 caliber and quickly arrived at .72 caliber round ball. Seems that the European hunters desired to anchor their quarry and not have much time spent on a blood trail. While I have hunted with a .54 flintlock since 2013, I am hoping to have a .62 caliber flintlock in my hands before December this year. It will be based on the British Sporting Rifle design, and yeah, I was even thinking of going to .66 caliber.
And to be fair to muzzleloaders, I have experienced very recently "updated" modern bullet designs out of modern centerfire rifles that left very little blood trail, with me pacing back and forth on the mountain trying to find a deer that is already stone cold dead 75 yards away, such is their ability to mushroom up inside the deer. That also is a disadvantage, and I prefer a pass-through with blood leaking out of both sides.

I don't know where you get "accusatory"....just wondering why such a long learning curve.
Myself and my 2 sons have hunted deer, elk, antelope, bear in the Rocky Mtns. for a good 20+ years with mostly .50 ca;. PRB and never had to search beyond 10-30 yds to find the downed animal, and in a good quantity dropped on site.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, when you shoot and the animal runs off, a follow up is always necessary....