PA flintlock late season flintlock hunters

[pamtnman]

I have spent a lot of time in the Rocky Mountains, from New Mexico to Canada, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Idaho, fishing, camping, canoeing, back packing, wildlife watching, never hunting, and it is a totally different environment than the eastern deciduous forest. Beautiful, and completely different. Especially the surface. That may seem obvious, but I think it in part explains "why such a long learning curve." Which sounds judgmental as hell. Jiminy crickets. If you have ever tried to climb one of our steep, rocky, leaf covered, fall-on-your-face slippery, heavily timbered mountain sides, and then tracked a wounded animal up or across, you would understand what I am talking about. This is a far more challenging and varied surface than anything I have seen in the Rockies. The thick leaves break up blood trails and hide hairs, heck half of the leaves are already red and look like blood is on them. Walking here, or sidehilling, is a contest between Will I fall and break my neck or will I fall and break my gun and then break my neck? Evidence of a black powder hit is not so easy to find, even if it is right there in front of my face. And we are used to watching deer go right down when we shoot them through shooting lanes between the trees with modern centerfires. Connecting the dots out here after a shot is very different than in the wide open Western spaces or those spruce forests. Don't judge people, and don't write things here that make it sound like you are judging them. You ain't squat, and neither am I. We are here on this website to learn from each other, have fun, and pick up cool gear before it gets onto the bigger web. See ya around

 

[user 53891]

I have spent a lot of time in the Rocky Mountains, from New Mexico to Canada, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Idaho, fishing, camping, canoeing, back packing, wildlife watching, never hunting, and it is a totally different environment than the eastern deciduous forest. Beautiful, and completely different. Especially the surface. That may seem obvious, but I think it in part explains "why such a long learning curve." Which sounds judgmental as hell. Jiminy crickets. If you have ever tried to climb one of our steep, rocky, leaf covered, fall-on-your-face slippery, heavily timbered mountain sides, and then tracked a wounded animal up or across, you would understand what I am talking about. This is a far more challenging and varied surface than anything I have seen in the Rockies. The thick leaves break up blood trails and hide hairs, heck half of the leaves are already red and look like blood is on them. Walking here, or sidehilling, is a contest between Will I fall and break my neck or will I fall and break my gun and then break my neck? Evidence of a black powder hit is not so easy to find, even if it is right there in front of my face. And we are used to watching deer go right down when we shoot them through shooting lanes between the trees with modern centerfires. Connecting the dots out here after a shot is very different than in the wide open Western spaces or those spruce forests. Don't judge people, and don't write things here that make it sound like you are judging them. You ain't squat, and neither am I. We are here on this website to learn from each other, have fun, and pick up cool gear before it gets onto the bigger web. See ya around

I'll just say I've been in the Rockies for 44 years and hope to chalk up a few more. I was born in the Alleghenies of PA. You want to talk steep mountains. The problems, no matter North, South, East or West can all be difficult. The Rockies have the same challenges as the east, with just as steep incline and higher, fall leaves from the aspens and other broadleaf trees, etc. I judged no one, but I am not being dramatic either. Adios amigo.

 

[morehops52]

I've used Maxis exclusivly since the 1970's. I quit counting the deer that I've taken with them. Every one of them would have produced a very follow able trail except for the fact that I never had to track one. The farthest one ever went was 20 yds and most were still in their tracks when the smoke cleared. Expansion or not, a 50 and particularly a 54 calber slug creates a LOT of trauma on it's way thru. I know because I butcher my deer too.
And no disrespect to the RBlrs, Everybody should shoot what is most accurate to their and their rifle's ability. Or just whatever the heck puts a smile on their face.

 

[kyron4]

A little off topic, but all this talk of blood trails and ballistics of RB's really seems moot. The skill and knowledge of tracking game , wounded or otherwise, has been mostly lost in the modern age. I'm proud to say that my Cherokee grandmother taught me the ways as a young boy and I continue to learn every time I'm in the woods. A turned leaf and bent sapling etc. can lead the way once you learn the ways and free your mind of the clutter of the modern world. I feel the hunters and mountain men of the 1800's were also well versed in the ways.

A good shot with a good load should reduce or eliminate tracking, but sometimes even a perfect shot can lead to a deer running several hundred yards with no blood.

 

[Ditt44]

Not going to quote myself but back to post #18 if you've not read from the start. Summary: A knockdown at 25 ish yards was not an easy track job and had there not been snow over heavily traveled and I mean cattle-path like trails, finding my deer this year would have been a nightmare. So, plus 1 for follow up on every shot, whether you knocked one down or not.

Ancedote from last Sunday: Picking up my trail cams I was walking back toward my pop up blind which was next to be packed up, right there, within 30 feet lay a dead doe. She'd been dead barely a week by my guess, fresh maggots on her and she was not there on January 16th. Her right side and hind areas eaten by fox and coyotes. No obvious wounds on what was left of her side. I flipped her over and the only blood I could find looked to be a gut-shot entry on her left side... just a small bright red blood stain and hole. I cannot say 100% she was shot with a muzzle loader and I know for a fact I heard numerous rifle shots during our late season and some well after dark, but that's another story. Point being, someone shot her and left her because they either didn't try to find her (legally) or wouldn't come on to my property. None of my cameras picked her up so I'm not sure which angle she came in from before lying down to die.

Ancedote 2: An aside to Kyron4's note on tracking... a neighbor winged a doe last year. Right thru the back half of the right elbow, half amputation. He is partially disabled so tracking was impossible for him alone. Myself and another friend began slowing following tiny drops of blood on tall grass/weeds. Now and then a spot she had laid down. After 150 yards we bumped her and heard her stumble down the hill in the dark woods. That was it for the night. Back at 7 am we crawled, hands and knees over mucky heavy traffic areas thru briar and Russian olive. This was a drop every 30 feet sort of search with the lucky temporary bed found now and then. After another hour we bumped her again and then circled around her. Eventually as we were about to give up as she was nearing a "no go" property line, I glanced to my right and there she lay not 20 feet away, ears flat, head down, hiding behind a log. One of the longest, most sad moments of my hunting experience followed as I slowly turned and raised my crossbow and quickly fired. It was awful to watch her struggle but she expired quickly and I was thankful that we could recover her.

Far too many deer are lost, in my opinion, from foremost a lack of concern on the hunter's part. Laziness. Skill is important and develops over time but to me perseverance is just as important. On his own, my neighbor never finds that deer. On my own, perhaps I don't either but I know I would have spent that entire day looking. We found her because three guys believed we needed to do all we could and we tried to do the right thing to the best of our abilities. We got lucky as well, not just in finding that pin head drop of blood now and then but also that the local coyotes didn't get to her first.

 

[MtHoot]

I have been watching a lot more YouTube videos this winter and seem to be watching every PA flintlock hunt that is posted. Most of the guys are carrying a TC or CVA type gun, what surprises me is the huge number of klatches these guys have, it seems like they have two or three klatches to every successful ignition. They all say "well. that flintlock hunting" when they have a klatch.

I can tell they love the drives and the hunting but appear to be not that much up on what it takes to get a flintlock to work. When I started out with a TC flintlock I had the same problem, it wasn't until I started shooting guns with Roller and Siler locks that I learned just what it took to make a flintlock go off reliably every time.

Another thing I notice is they all try to shoot offhand at spooky driven deer, I aways think when I am watching them "there is a tree right next to you lean up against it". I have yet to see anyone carrying cross sticks to shoot off of, their miss rate is about 5 misses to one hit.

Leatherwood Outdoors post a lot of videos, these guys know what they are doing, klatches and misses are few and far between.

As a early/late season flinter I am amazed about what I have seen in the woods in Pennsylvania the last few years. Lots of folks getting into the sport with group drives lots of shots close proximity shooting, lots of misfires and off hand shooting etc.

I have been watching a lot more YouTube videos this winter and seem to be watching every PA flintlock hunt that is posted. Most of the guys are carrying a TC or CVA type gun, what surprises me is the huge number of klatches these guys have, it seems like they have two or three klatches to every successful ignition. They all say "well. that flintlock hunting" when they have a klatch.

I can tell they love the drives and the hunting but appear to be not that much up on what it takes to get a flintlock to work. When I started out with a TC flintlock I had the same problem, it wasn't until I started shooting guns with Roller and Siler locks that I learned just what it took to make a flintlock go off reliably every time.

Another thing I notice is they all try to shoot offhand at spooky driven deer, I aways think when I am watching them "there is a tree right next to you lean up against it". I have yet to see anyone carrying cross sticks to shoot off of, their miss rate is about 5 misses to one hit.

Leatherwood Outdoors post a lot of videos, these guys know what they are doing, klatches and misses are few and far between.

I have been watching a lot more YouTube videos this winter and seem to be watching every PA flintlock hunt that is posted. Most of the guys are carrying a TC or CVA type gun, what surprises me is the huge number of klatches these guys have, it seems like they have two or three klatches to every successful ignition. They all say "well. that flintlock hunting" when they have a klatch.

I can tell they love the drives and the hunting but appear to be not that much up on what it takes to get a flintlock to work. When I started out with a TC flintlock I had the same problem, it wasn't until I started shooting guns with Roller and Siler locks that I learned just what it took to make a flintlock go off reliably every time.

Another thing I notice is they all try to shoot offhand at spooky driven deer, I aways think when I am watching them "there is a tree right next to you lean up against it". I have yet to see anyone carrying cross sticks to shoot off of, their miss rate is about 5 misses to one hit.

Leatherwood Outdoors post a lot of videos, these guys know what they are doing, klatches and misses are few and far between.

Unfortunately for a lot of Pennsylvania big woods hunters in early and late season there has been a dramatic uptick of large groups of gentlemen who seem to pick an area, go through it like locomotives shooting in any direction of movement, close proximity, off hand, and so forth. If you listen carefully while the pass through your area and they stop talking for a moment, you actually hear more flints striking the frizzen with no boom , then you do actual shots being fired. Boils down to knowing you rifle and most importantly knowing your lock intimately. My preferred lock is a siler, still USA made and ultra reliable with care. One of the fortunate things about these types of hunters they go through an area very quickly and move on, so It gives us ole timers(f***s) time to actually hunt quietly and safely in the peace and beauty of the Pennsylvania Wilds. Not much for videos, not sure I would trust them all too much for the fact that how on Gods green earth can you actually hunt and choreograph a movie while hunting? Kind of goes against everything I ever learned. They are all in it to make money. Find a mentor, you’ll be happy and better off with life long skills. Just saying.

 

[MtHoot]

A little off topic, but all this talk of blood trails and ballistics of RB's really seems moot. The skill and knowledge of tracking game , wounded or otherwise, has been mostly lost in the modern age. I'm proud to say that my Cherokee grandmother taught me the ways as a young boy and I continue to learn every time I'm in the woods. A turned leaf and bent sapling etc. can lead the way once you learn the ways and free your mind of the clutter of the modern world. I feel the hunters and mountain men of the 1800's were also well versed in the ways.

A good shot with a good load should reduce or eliminate tracking, but sometimes even a perfect shot can lead to a deer running several hundred yards with no blood.

Exacty

 

[SOLANCO]

Fairly rural here in this part of the county. Small farms. Woodlots. Some State Game Lands. Some Conservancy properties. There are enough deer that I put an electronic whistle on my car to shoo them when driving at or near dark. And they grow big.
Yet the day after Thanksgiving the supermarket will have groups of guys filling carts with food to take to their deer camps upstate in the mountains. So I will posit that deer season in Pennsylvania is as much a social event as a sporting event.
There is a noticeable uptick in attendance at local club rifle ranges in the month leading up to opening day.

 

[BillyC]

I’ve hunted deer in PA for 50 years and I have to say most hunters I see and know are not very serious. Most never touch their rifle until the week before season starts and at that time the rifle ranges are packed with guys that have mixed boxes of ammo, no hearing protection, very poor bench technique etc. it is very common to see hunters without binoculars use their rifle scope to try to identify legal bucks. Where I hunt I am surrounded on all four sides by rural roads and on opening day of buck season from my treestand I see the same cars driving around and around “hunting” from the roads. I haven’t hunted the flintlock season yet but I’m sure there will be way less careless individuals out. I’ll still wear my orange
and carry binoculars for identifying distant objects.
BTW, I only hunt on private, posted land now.

 

[MtHoot]

I’ve hunted deer in PA for 50 years and I have to say most hunters I see and know are not very serious. Most never touch their rifle until the week before season starts and at that time the rifle ranges are packed with guys that have mixed boxes of ammo, no hearing protection, very poor bench technique etc. it is very common to see hunters without binoculars use their rifle scope to try to identify legal bucks. Where I hunt I am surrounded on all four sides by rural roads and on opening day of buck season from my treestand I see the same cars driving around and around “hunting” from the roads. I haven’t hunted the flintlock season yet but I’m sure there will be way less careless individuals out. I’ll still wear my orange
and carry binoculars for identifying distant objects.
BTW, I only hunt on private, posted land now.

I’ve hunted deer in PA for 50 years and I have to say most hunters I see and know are not very serious. Most never touch their rifle until the week before season starts and at that time the rifle ranges are packed with guys that have mixed boxes of ammo, no hearing protection, very poor bench technique etc. it is very common to see hunters without binoculars use their rifle scope to try to identify legal bucks. Where I hunt I am surrounded on all four sides by rural roads and on opening day of buck season from my treestand I see the same cars driving around and around “hunting” from the roads. I haven’t hunted the flintlock season yet but I’m sure there will be way less careless individuals out. I’ll still wear my orange
and carry binoculars for identifying distant objects.
BTW, I only hunt on private, posted land now.

That is a sad report. You like myself have hunted Pennsylvania over 50 years. It has definitely changed. I corrected a person very nicely at the range on Friday to politely not smoke cigarettes in my vicinity due to the fact I was shooting black powder and preferred not to have an unintentional explosion at my station. He turned to me and said “ calm the hell down old man, nothing is gonna blow up and you aint the law”!I stopped going to the range on weekends because of this typical behavior, but now it spills into the week days. I have stage IV cancer and cherish every day so I don’t need to meet my maker by some jokers stupidity. But as you say the lack of knowledge and discipline in a number of people (not all) is definitely on the upswing.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I hunt in the evenings most of the time, If I can't find a deer, I am back at daylight the next morning 100% of the time.

I learned a lesson years ago about perseverance; I shot at doe on the side of a ridge above me, I didn't notice the 2" sapling that was in front of her chest, I was using a TC maxi. When I walked up to where she was standing, I saw the sapling shot in two and thought "no way I hit that deer". I followed the way she ran off and didn't find any blood at all, I headed back to the truck, about halfway back I thought "that deer deserves better" and when back to where I took the shot. This time I got down on my hands and knees and followed her path, about 20 yards out I found one pinhead sized speck of blood and nothing for the next 50 yards, then I found a few drops and a few more. The deer turned up the hill toward a fence line and opened up, it literally looked like someone had thrown a bucket of blood down the path. The deer made it to the fence but was too weak to jump it and died right there. Lesson learned.

 

[MtHoot]

I hunt in the evenings most of the time, If I can't find a deer, I am back at daylight the next morning 100% of the time.

I learned a lesson years ago about perseverance; I shot at doe on the side of a ridge above me, I didn't notice the 2" sapling that was in front of her chest, I was using a TC maxi. When I walked up to where she was standing, I saw the sapling shot in two and thought "no way I hit that deer". I followed the way she ran off and didn't find any blood at all, I headed back to the truck, about halfway back I thought "that deer deserves better" and when back to where I took the shot. This time I got down on my hands and knees and followed her path, about 20 yards out I found one pinhead sized speck of blood and nothing for the next 50 yards, then I found a few drops and a few more. The deer turned up the hill toward a fence line and opened up, it literally looked like someone had thrown a bucket of blood down the path. The deer made it to the fence but was too weak to jump it and died right there. Lesson learned.

I am glad you trusted your second thoughts!

 

[snakebit]

I practice out to 100 offhand and I feel I can shoot good even that far. Very confident if rested.
I shoot my .58 out to 100 and felt confident. Targets don't give me the jitters though. I missed one at 100 in late season, and I was rested. Can't practice shooting with nerves unless you shoot competitively! Ha

What is your YT channel name? I'd like to pick up some pointers.

 

[pamtnman]

Late season flintlock drives are fun, productive, and in thick cover are the only way to move deer. The whole video trend thing is something else, and as far as I can tell, many videos of all kinds of activities (chainsaws, skidding logs with tractors, welding, to name a few) are posted by people with little experience in the subject but who have a strong desire to be perceived as experts. Hunting included, especially hunting from elevated box blinds with scoped centerfire rifles on rests while explaining the trophy merits of various visible bucks standing in unharvested crop fields. I don’t understand or relate to these videos, and I imagine few people on this forum can relate to them either. They may or may not be representative of general hunting trends, and they are usually unrelated to how my friends and I hunt. Definitely a lot of plastic stocked mass production flintlocks here in PA, some of which are well tuned and useful. Don’t let a deer drive push you out of an area. Very often deer double back through or around the drive, or will deliberately move into the area the drivers went through. A hunter who sits tight is likely to see deer when the human activity dies down or moves off. Fall is in the air and I hope everyone here has a great season afield

 

[MtHoot]

Late season flintlock drives are fun, productive, and in thick cover are the only way to move deer. The whole video trend thing is something else, and as far as I can tell, many videos of all kinds of activities (chainsaws, skidding logs with tractors, welding, to name a few) are posted by people with little experience in the subject but who have a strong desire to be perceived as experts. Hunting included, especially hunting from elevated box blinds with scoped centerfire rifles on rests while explaining the trophy merits of various visible bucks standing in unharvested crop fields. I don’t understand or relate to these videos, and I imagine few people on this forum can relate to them either. They may or may not be representative of general hunting trends, and they are usually unrelated to how my friends and I hunt. Definitely a lot of plastic stocked mass production flintlocks here in PA, some of which are well tuned and useful. Don’t let a deer drive push you out of an area. Very often deer double back through or around the drive, or will deliberately move into the area the drivers went through. A hunter who sits tight is likely to see deer when the human activity dies down or moves off. Fall is in the air and I hope everyone here has a great season afield

That’s pretty much what I have experienced and written about these large groups of “ hunters “ coming through like locomotives. I wrote just wait they move quickly and then peaceful hunting returns. Countless times over the years I have taken deer within a 30 minute passing of the train, a so called fringe benefit of someone else’s lack of proper hunting technique… just saying.

 

[pamtnman]

I’ve hunted deer in PA for 50 years and I have to say most hunters I see and know are not very serious. Most never touch their rifle until the week before season starts and at that time the rifle ranges are packed with guys that have mixed boxes of ammo, no hearing protection, very poor bench technique etc. it is very common to see hunters without binoculars use their rifle scope to try to identify legal bucks. Where I hunt I am surrounded on all four sides by rural roads and on opening day of buck season from my treestand I see the same cars driving around and around “hunting” from the roads. I haven’t hunted the flintlock season yet but I’m sure there will be way less careless individuals out. I’ll still wear my orange
and carry binoculars for identifying distant objects.
BTW, I only hunt on private, posted land now.

You are going to looooove the late season. Despite the deer being hunted hard the past three months, you'll find them calming down because the woods will be almost empty of people. It’s a special time of year. Hope you are successful and that you enjoy it like I do and most other late season hunters do

 

[Juniata]

What is your YT channel name? I'd like to pick up some pointers.

B Kauffman

Hope you can find something helpful

 

[Juniata]

I love driving deer. It's a ball.

 

[BillyC]

You are going to looooove the late season. Despite the deer being hunted hard the past three months, you'll find them calming down because the woods will be almost empty of people. It’s a special time of year. Hope you are successful and that you enjoy it like I do and most other late season hunters do

I’m really hoping there will be some snow on the ground for the flintlock season. I’ve always enjoyed being in the woods late in winter and just following tracks, whether I’m hunting or not.

 

[snakebit]

I love driving deer. It's a ball.

As a guy that's been caught between deer drives more than once, I will respectfully disagree with you sir