PA Game Commission to Ruin Flintlock Season?

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MountainHunter01 said:
To even buy a new flintlock anymore traditions is the only budget option with the deerhunter and pa powder, Lyman, investarms, and traditions both have midrange, and pedersoli has some nicer models, but a good flintlock is running you close to a grand if not more. It’s getting to the point where finding materials and purchasing a flintlock is cost prohibitive to so many people that we are losing a decent many who would otherwise hunt late season. P/c percussion sidekicks are much easier to find and I think would open the door up to more people as it would be more versatile in early season.
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I think the intention is to drive interest by offering more options and opportunity, which I think makes sense. The cost to enter hunting by rifle, bow or flintlock are all pretty high. The PGC can add more seasons and more time to them, but the areas of the state they're struggling to manage the deer population don't have enough open public land -and access to huntable land is (in my opinion) what hurts interest. It can be a little discouraging as I see more deer in front yards and dead on the roadside on my drive to my spot than I do all day in the woods.
 
BoomStick said:
I think the intention is to drive interest by offering more options and opportunity, which I think makes sense. The cost to enter hunting by rifle, bow or flintlock are all pretty high. The PGC can add more seasons and more time to them, but the areas of the state they're struggling to manage the deer population don't have enough open public land -and access to huntable land is (in my opinion) what hurts interest. It can be a little discouraging as I see more deer in front yards and dead on the roadside on my drive to my spot than I do all day in the woods.
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I absolutely agree with that. There are much better ways to go about it though. Flintlock in general is almost the holy grail of hunting for guys at least in my area. It’s the one time of year when unskilled hunters from other states are out of the woods, not crashing around leaving trash everywhere, or riding e-bikes around, and we get a chance to do more old style hunting. If in line would ever be allowed in flintlock there would be a major kickback from resident hunters and would probably lose more people than it attracted. A better way to to do it would be to extend regular rifle by a few days, maybe by having it run alongside bear season
 
Brokennock said:
Not directed at you specifically @tdoyka as several have expressed similar, yours was just the most expedient line to quote....

Why, "mandated"? Freedom is about choices, liberty is about the freedom to make those choices. Freedom and liberty are often messy as sometimes people make poor choices, sometimes people make the right choice for them but someone else's decision and choice results in harm.
I've been 5 yards away from a large someone wearing a solid blaze orange vest and a blaze orange hat and couldn't see him,,,, the orange wasn't going to stop the person who makes the choice to shoot at sound and movement from shooting him.
I should get a fine, and possibly loose hunting privileges, because I have on 100 or 200 square inches of orange instead of 400? Or because I'm out doing my experiencial archeology thing and hunting in full period clothing with period gear? I should get punished by the government when I've used my freedom and liberty to decide I am okay with the risk, and possible consequences of someone doing something stupid?

If blaze is so effective why doesn't everyone in the woods and fields have to wear it during hunting season? I have a ludicrous amount of hikers, dog walkers, mountain bikers, mushroom hunters,,,,, and,, anti hunters, all over the woods with no orange. All the orange does is single me out as the guy with the gun.

Now, I do in fact keep a blaze orange bandana handy at all times to flag down other hunters regardless of season and what I'm wearing.
Actually I always have it, and a blaze orange watch cap with me in the woods and field in case I need to draw attention or if I get hurt and might need to be found, I can put the cap on and be a little more visible to searchers.
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i was 16yo or so, in PA flintlock hunting season. i was going to my stand by some railroad tracks. i was about 100 yards away from my stand, when what i thought was deer showed up in the brush. the "deer" was slowly moving the brush to a spot that i could shoot it. i could see a piece of brown movement, but not the "deer". i shouldered the FL, but was pointing it at the ground at half cock. when it came out of the brush, i went from excitement to "i could have killed him" to "boy, i was mad". mad at myself and made at the neighbor for not wearing orange. he wore old brown Carhart bibs , old brown Carhart coat and a black beanie, hunting for grouse. he could have ate a prb, if i was someone else. i learned not point the gun, unless i willingly to use it. that was Rule #1 that my dad (RIP) taught me. as soon as i pulled trigger, i can't make the bullet come back. i am responsible for the bullet. not you, not him or her, but me.

we talked for a little bit about hunting, when i told him "i could have shot you, but your lucky i didn't. you have no orange and your going thru the brush wearing brown and it is muzzleloader season. you are lucky you didn't come across a brush shooter." i can remember his face when i told him that. it went from happy smile to oh my god, he could have, frown. every time since, he wears orange.

hunting is not a right. it is a privilege. privilege comes with rules. unfortunately, orange clothing is not required for PA flintlock season. when i did archery season, it was a camo orange vest and hat. i killed a whole bunch of deer in archery season. i hunted archery in West Virginia with camo orange vest and hat, i killed deer too.
 
We do still get out of state hunters for flintlock season. Just sold one this morning to a Florida resident this morning. Retired from Ohio and has a camp in Warren Pa. Picking it up this week.
 
ChuckJonesWagon said:
From the Pa Hunting Digest 2024-25:

It is unlawful to be on State Game Lands from Nov. 15 through Dec. 15, including Sundays
designated as hunting days, without wearing a minimum of 250 square inches of fluorescent
orange-colored material on the head, chest and back combined, unless engaged in lawful hunting
or trapping that does not require the use of orange.

In these parts if you don't have FO on public game lands during hunting season it can cost you
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That doesn't answer the question of why people think it should be "mandated."
 
Brokennock said:
That doesn't answer the question of why people think it should be "mandated."
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter what "people" think. It's the law. We are a country of laws. At times, people need protected from stupid people.

Hunt public lands and you will come across stupid people. Not all, not even a majority, but just enough to make you think the majority of them are.
 
I wish everyone a good hunt and health in the new year.
Change is not good this time, but enjoy what we have left in PA.
It is an end of an era.
 
tdoyka said:
i was 16yo or so, in PA flintlock hunting season. i was going to my stand by some railroad tracks. i was about 100 yards away from my stand, when what i thought was deer showed up in the brush. the "deer" was slowly moving the brush to a spot that i could shoot it. i could see a piece of brown movement, but not the "deer". i shouldered the FL, but was pointing it at the ground at half cock. when it came out of the brush, i went from excitement to "i could have killed him" to "boy, i was mad". mad at myself and made at the neighbor for not wearing orange. he wore old brown Carhart bibs , old brown Carhart coat and a black beanie, hunting for grouse. he could have ate a prb, if i was someone else. i learned not point the gun, unless i willingly to use it. that was Rule #1 that my dad (RIP) taught me. as soon as i pulled trigger, i can't make the bullet come back. i am responsible for the bullet. not you, not him or her, but me.

we talked for a little bit about hunting, when i told him "i could have shot you, but your lucky i didn't. you have no orange and your going thru the brush wearing brown and it is muzzleloader season. you are lucky you didn't come across a brush shooter." i can remember his face when i told him that. it went from happy smile to oh my god, he could have, frown. every time since, he wears orange.

hunting is not a right. it is a privilege. privilege comes with rules. unfortunately, orange clothing is not required for PA flintlock season. when i did archery season, it was a camo orange vest and hat. i killed a whole bunch of deer in archery season. i hunted archery in West Virginia with camo orange vest and hat, i killed deer too.
Click to expand...
I have seen shooting in the brush deer hunters a couple times myself when hunting on public land. I wasn't far from a shooting killing a hunter early in the morning. It was so dark that morning you could not see your hand touching your nose. Those actions told me to always wear orange and use a flashlight when walking to and away from your stand in the dark even on my private property. You never know if someone decided to trespass.
 
tdoyka said:
i was 16yo or so, in PA flintlock hunting season. i was going to my stand by some railroad tracks. i was about 100 yards away from my stand, when what i thought was deer showed up in the brush. the "deer" was slowly moving the brush to a spot that i could shoot it. i could see a piece of brown movement, but not the "deer". i shouldered the FL, but was pointing it at the ground at half cock. when it came out of the brush, i went from excitement to "i could have killed him" to "boy, i was mad". mad at myself and made at the neighbor for not wearing orange. he wore old brown Carhart bibs , old brown Carhart coat and a black beanie, hunting for grouse. he could have ate a prb, if i was someone else. i learned not point the gun, unless i willingly to use it. that was Rule #1 that my dad (RIP) taught me. as soon as i pulled trigger, i can't make the bullet come back. i am responsible for the bullet. not you, not him or her, but me.

we talked for a little bit about hunting, when i told him "i could have shot you, but your lucky i didn't. you have no orange and your going thru the brush wearing brown and it is muzzleloader season. you are lucky you didn't come across a brush shooter." i can remember his face when i told him that. it went from happy smile to oh my god, he could have, frown. every time since, he wears orange.

hunting is not a right. it is a privilege. privilege comes with rules. unfortunately, orange clothing is not required for PA flintlock season. when i did archery season, it was a camo orange vest and hat. i killed a whole bunch of deer in archery season. i hunted archery in West Virginia with camo orange vest and hat, i killed deer too.
Click to expand...
I had a very similar experience when I was about 18. It was the first year I bought a doe tag for the old two day doe season after the two week buck season. FO was a requirement at that point.

I'm standing on a huge rock overlooking a flat with heavy brush behind me. I hear rustling in the brush and I can see brown moving through the brush. Of course, I'm thinking deer as nobody in their right mind would not have FO on in a doe season. As I scan the brush in front of the movement I see a small window of opening where "the brown" was moving to. I bring up my .308 and hold it at the opening. Then entire time I'm thinking what my late Grandfather pounded into my head: "Make damn sure you know what the target is first!"

So, the rifle is up, the safety is off, and my finger is outside the TG. (Don't touch the trigger unless you're going to fire....more Grandpa advice) Then out of the brush steps a big guy about in his 50's dressed head to toe in brown.

I dropped my muzzle immediately, knowing I had a loaded rifle, safe off pointed at a human. I was so shook by this ordeal I had to sit down for a good half hour before I calmed down. A thousand doe could have walked by me at that point and they were all safe.

Always identify the target. FO laws are in place to protect people from stupid. I wonder if it had been someone else in my place that didn't have their Grandfather's voice resonating in their head to ID the target.....what could have happen?

I've posted this before and was criticized about my judgement. Well, it was the judgement of an 18yo who wanted to kill a doe. We all did "stupid" at 18. Both myself and the guy in brown were lucky I had a great hunting mentor. And BTW, the brown guy never knew how close he came.

FWIW
 
ChuckJonesWagon said:
I had a very similar experience when I was about 18. It was the first year I bought a doe tag for the old two day doe season after the two week buck season. FO was a requirement at that point.

I'm standing on a huge rock overlooking a flat with heavy brush behind me. I hear rustling in the brush and I can see brown moving through the brush. Of course, I'm thinking deer as nobody in their right mind would not have FO on in a doe season. As I scan the brush in front of the movement I see a small window of opening where "the brown" was moving to. I bring up my .308 and hold it at the opening. Then entire time I'm thinking what my late Grandfather pounded into my head: "Make damn sure you know what the target is first!"

So, the rifle is up, the safety is off, and my finger is outside the TG. (Don't touch the trigger unless you're going to fire....more Grandpa advice) Then out of the brush steps a big guy about in his 50's dressed head to toe in brown.

I dropped my muzzle immediately, knowing I had a loaded rifle, safe off pointed at a human. I was so shook by this ordeal I had to sit down for a good half hour before I calmed down. A thousand doe could have walked by me at that point and they were all safe.

Always identify the target. FO laws are in place to protect people from stupid. I wonder if it had been someone else in my place that didn't have their Grandfather's voice resonating in their head to ID the target.....what could have happen?

I've posted this before and was criticized about my judgement. Well, it was the judgement of an 18yo who wanted to kill a doe. We all did "stupid" at 18. Both myself and the guy in brown were lucky I had a great hunting mentor. And BTW, the brown guy never knew how close he came.

FWIW
Click to expand...
During a special archery hunt at a military area.
A buddy and me were walking back to the truck, carrying our tree stands that were making all kinds of noises blus talking out loud. We looked up ahead of us 25 yards was a guy with his bow and arrow full drawn pointed straight at us ready to shoot. You just never know how easy it is to get shot when you're out in the woods.
 
Years ago I hunted in the Uraweras it was after a big storm called' Cyclone Bola' ridges a mess of downed trees. I had my snap matchlock (Ide been at a shoot earlier ) I spy a Stag across a gully & had my pan open and a good coal but just couldn't get a clear shot . I figured no body in their right mind would be up on that tangled mess ridge .But I was there so didn't shoot .lost my Deer but better safe than sorry. I've never worn day glow or camouflage not did any other pro Deer culler or NZ hunter I knew" Identifie your target" the first lesson .
Conversely I was up in Mackenzie BC some hunter shot & killed one & wounded another two hunters in a Canoe wearing day glow kit His defence was "I thought they where a deer" and he got away with murder . Recollecting Rudyard
 
WonkyEye said:
I hope they don't mess with flintlock season. As I understand it was initially proposed, lobbied and created specifically as a traditional primitive hunting season. It's awful hard to wear buckskins and furs safely when there are modern rifles and orange requirements in the woods. There is plenty of other time to extend the season if they want to make it more available without infringing on flintlock. This year 27 Oct to 29 Nov and 15 Dec - 25 Dec were closed to whitetail. It's extended regular firearms season here in Allegheny county (they did away with flintlock in 3 wmus already) and I might see 1 car at the SGL in wexford , maybe 1/4 of the time when I drove past. Most days I don't see anyone parked on the lane at the abutting gun club that leads back to the hunting area and the SGL.
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Hope they don’t mess with it also. It wasn’t implemented as a management season and it certainly is a minimal harvest overall. However, with our hunting population crashing hard, I expect the PGC to widen seasons and harvest numbers to compensate. It is really fun to wander the woods with a flintlock or bow in the late season. I guess that one could argue we can do that regardless but isolating the time for something unique and specific to our heritage has its place. Just my thoughts.
 
Having worked for the PGC, I think most of the staff and even the commissioners recognize how unique our flintlock season is and I presume that it's safe. Will there be concurrent seasons in some areas with high deer populations or CWD? Sure, I don't doubt it, but as others have suggested, would that really "ruin the season" for you? Come on, how many hunters do most of you run into during the late season (I can honestly say that it's been many years since the last time I saw ANY other hunters during flintlock season)?

I also agree with those who say that the PGC will probably look to expand seasons to allow longer seasons, higher harvest, additional tags, different firearms and archery equipment, etc. which is probably a good thing from the hunters' perspective. The one thing that I've always wished that they'd consider (and have written letters/emails supporting it) would be to allow someone to harvest a buck during the early muzzleloader season if they were willing to sacrifice their buck tag early. If they wish to make that a flintlock only option (which is what I've encouraged) or to allow unmentionables or any sidelock, I suppose would be open to discussion, but how fun would it be to hunt for buck during the pre-rut with a flintlock rifle? For perspective, I'm blessed with good hunting areas and I've got a good bit of experience with archery gear, so simply harvesting a buck for me (even pretty good ones) isn't an extreme challenge; I'd just prefer to do it with one of my own rifles at that time of year.
 
ChuckJonesWagon said:
From the Pa Hunting Digest 2024-25:

It is unlawful to be on State Game Lands from Nov. 15 through Dec. 15, including Sundays
designated as hunting days, without wearing a minimum of 250 square inches of fluorescent
orange-colored material on the head, chest and back combined, unless engaged in lawful hunting
or trapping that does not require the use of orange.

In these parts if you don't have FO on public game lands during hunting season it can cost you
Click to expand...
Explain the part that says,"unless engaged in lawful hunting or trapping"? I thought you wore orange everytime you hunt?
 

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