PA regulation changes to be considered

[zimmerstutzen]

The Pennsylvania Game Commission has a few regulation changes before it that may affect your hunting.

1. For years peep sights were illegal, then for a few years they were legal, then made illegal again, about 5 years ago. The current proposed reg is to allow "open or aperture sights"

2. The definition of muzzle loader is being changed to permit breech loading loose component firearms that do not take cartridges. So a Ferguson flint lock will be legal, same for the Sharps percussion rifles.

3. This one is confusing. For small game the regulation states a muzzleloader rifle or pistol 40 caliber and under. But a few sentences later, it Prohibits the use of any single projectile ammunition over 22 caliber when hunting small game.

4. The regulations will no longer require only flint percussion or primer ignition for muzzle loaders. Wheel locks and matchlocks, electric ignition, needle fire, etc shall be legal again after about 35 years.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Huh? Peeps are illegal? I thought that was in their current verbage.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

They say "peep" and not aperture.....

See page 2 of their regulations PDF.

http://www.pgc.pa.gov/HuntTrap/Law/Documents/2016-17%20Hunting%20Trapping%20Digest/Deer.pdf

 

[zimmerstutzen]

That is not the regulations, that is the comic book regurgitation which states right near the front cover that it is not the law. the actual regulation found in PA code title 58 says this (1) Permitted devices. It is lawful to hunt deer during the flintlock muzzleloading deer season with a flintlock muzzleloading firearm. The firearm must be an original or similar reproduction of muzzleloading firearm manufactured prior to 1800. The firearm’s ignition mechanism must consist of a hammer containing a naturally occurring stone that is spring propelled onto an iron or steel frizzen which, in turn, creates sparks to ignite a priming powder. The firearm must have open sights and be a .44 caliber or larger single-barrel long gun or a .50 caliber or larger single-barrel handgun that propels single-projectile ammunition..


The comic book has been wrong for the past 5 years at least. It is wrong else where as well. For instance, it says any muzzle loader is legal for the regular firearms season, but the regulation actually limits muzzle loaders to single barrel guns and only flint, percussion or primer ignited firearms.

 

[Grumpa]

1. The current proposed reg is to allow "open or aperture sights"

A boon for older eyes. And peep sights did exist back then.

2. The definition of muzzle loader is being changed to permit breech loading loose component firearms that do not take cartridges. So a Ferguson flint lock will be legal, same for the Sharps percussion rifles.

Sounds to me like in-lines would also be legal, in which case that's mostly all you'll see.

3. This one is confusing. For small game the regulation states a muzzleloader rifle or pistol 40 caliber and under. But a few sentences later, it Prohibits the use of any single projectile ammunition over 22 caliber when hunting small game.

Maybe they're referring to metallic cartridges?

4. The regulations will no longer require only flint percussion or primer ignition for muzzle loaders. Wheel locks and matchlocks, electric ignition, needle fire, etc shall be legal again after about 35 years.

Any of these can be used in regular gun season now. Sounds to me like they are planning the end of the Flintlock Season as we know it. Electric ignition? I know all about Ben Franklin and the kite and key , but he didn't have it connected to a gun.

Richard/Grumpa

 

[Walks with fire]

Where can I find more information on these proposed changes to our flintlock season?

I also don't understand how loose components can be loaded from the breech? Does this mean that percussion firearms will be legal during our late deer season which is limited to flint ignition now? Why can't they leave things alone. More, better, faster. Doesn't anyone know how to hunt anymore without 200 yard range capability?

Maybe the percussion Green Mountain drop-in ball barrels in percussion that I have in mothballs will get some woods time if they do. I bought them to convert to flint but decided it would be a crime to mess with them. Got a 54 and a .58 unfired. I love GM barrels.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Gumpa: Under the current regulations only flint percussion and primer ignition are permitted in the early muzzle loader season or the regular firearms season. The digest has been wrong for years. This change corrects that problem.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Walks with fire; The changes to the flint season are minimal. The changes are found on the PGC web site under the agenda for the January 30 2017 meeting.

The late season will still require a flint ignition, but now the definition of muzzle loader may include breech loading flint locks such as the Ferguson rifle for the late season. Since the ferguson is so complicated to machine, and so expensive, I doubt we will see many in the woods.

 

[Grumpa]

Thanks for the reassurance.

The PGC even says that the "Digest" isn't to be relied on. Why do they even publish that "comic book"?

Richard

 

[B.Habermehl]

That's because the game law in book form would look like a telephone book. Most people would never "digest" it.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

It really isn't all that much. I have a copy of the laws and regulations that was handed out to the WCO's and deputies in 1980. It is about the size of the average paper back book and about and about 90 pages.

At one time, the digest was a single piece of paper legal size,folded into eighths. The digest now is too big to carry along hunting, the main idea for the book originally was to carry it with the license..

 

[excess650]

the actual regulation found in PA code title 58 says this (1) Permitted devices. It is lawful to hunt deer during the flintlock muzzleloading deer season with a flintlock muzzleloading firearm. The firearm must be an original or similar reproduction of muzzleloading firearm manufactured prior to 1800. The firearm’s ignition mechanism must consist of a hammer containing a naturally occurring stone that is spring propelled onto an iron or steel frizzen which, in turn, creates sparks to ignite a priming powder. The firearm must have open sights and be a .44 caliber or larger single-barrel long gun or a .50 caliber or larger single-barrel handgun that propels single-projectile ammunition..

They have been ignoring their own verbage forever it seems. The vast majority of flintlocks seen in the woods bear no resemblance to anything made prior to 1800.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Pre-1800....;

Soooo.......

Who's gonna come forward as reigning deputy of the flintlock police?

So much for german silver...........

All kiding aside, when are they going to vote on this?

I've been using a peep sight in PA for 3 years, it would be nice if it were actually legal, and we could easily see in a brochure what legal was as well.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

first vote was three weeks ago, second in April. Trouble with the PGC is finding what they actually passed in January after any last minute Amendments. I heard they changed some of the air rifle proposal at the last minute. The commissioners really need someone who knows about historical firearms to advise them. I have tried by sending letters and e-mails.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Sorry, the next vote is in the end of March

 

[beagles5]

The use of "black guns" in rifle season???

In-lines in flintlock sason???

Who at the PGC would go along with this BS??

I can only hope these do not become legal. The thrill of harvesting a deer w/flintlock will never get old for me and is not all that difficult to accomplish, once you've learned the fine art of maintaining these firearms.

It should always be about 1 well placed shot.

Even our military has gotten away from the "spray and pray" mentality.

I sincerely hope our Flintlock season is left at just that. Flintlocks only. And as far as semi-autos in rifle season...catering to a small minority who wish they had the ba*ls to join the USMC.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Calm down Beagles. Flint will still be flint. Just that a flintlock ignition breech loader will now be legal in flint season, like the Ferguson rifle. In the early muzzle loader season, a Sharps percussion breech loader will be legal. No self contained fixed cartridge guns allowed. One change will correct their earlier goof up about allowing the use of peep sights.

I still don't understand the continued ban on muzzle loader pistols in the special regulation areas, where in lines are permitted.

Sharps percussion guns and Ferguson flintlocks were completely legal for hunting, with some restricttions in PA until around 1984. Legal in the regular seasons, not the flint season. Some 40 years later, the PGC is going to permit them to be used again. Banning them for the regular season made no sense anyway.

The new proposed regulations will be published on the PGC web site in a week or two before the next PGC meeting. They do not leave much time for public study or comment by mail or email.

 

[beagles5]

Zim,

I will look on PGC web site to see what all is proposed.

If, indeed, there was something going against the grain, a week or 2 doesn't give much time to express opinion and gather support.

I thank-you for telling me where to get info...

Bill

 

[faste350]

our flintlock only season is always going to be in danger. we are going to have to fight every year to keep the inlines out and that will not be easy. with the focus these days on making everything easier with no time or work involved, the whiners will keep at it until the BOC/PGC cave! look at the suggestions flying around on another forum and those "wanna be's" are serious! its all about the money!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zonie]

Always follow the money trail if you want to know why any policy on anything is taken.

"If we can get 10 times as many hunters to buy tags for that hunt by changing things so they can apply, we'll make 10 times more money." :grin: