paper cart and ball size?

[riarcher]

Wasn't sure where to post this, so I stuck it here.
Is it better to use a bigger ball and less paper wraps, or a smaller ball with more paper (on heavier loads of course)?
In particular, a .75 Bess with a .715 or a .735 ball.
I was thinking smaller ball with more paper would allow for some BB in the outer layer of the wrap to keep fouling soft?
And, maybe it don't matter?
And how would you keep the spue oriented the same each time?
How do you know if you're sealing properly with the paper wad? I mean there is no patch to find and "read".
I'm assuming "moderate" thumb presure is stived for on loading?
As you can tell, the paper cartridge is anouther new area for me to try. :grin:

 

[bpollock_sr]

Here are 2 web sites that should answer all your questions about paper cartridges.
[url] http://ccv.northwestcompany.com/[/url]
[url] www.nwta.com/couriers/9-96/cartridge.html[/url]

excellent information at both sites.

 

[sherpadoug]

Very good info from both links. But from my experience I would divide the question in two. Of course if you are using paper cartridges I assume you are more concerned with military appearance and authenticity than accuracy. If you want accuracy use a cloth patch, not paper, and while you are at it get a rifle!
If you want quick no-fuss loading so you can fire a good six rounds a minute in a military line, and keep it up for ten or twenty shots without having to stop to clean the barrel, use a small ball and lots of paper. This is probably most authentic for a military setting too.
If you are only firing half a dozen shots between cleanings, and you would actually like to hit something, use as large a ball and as little paper as you can get away with. Beware of dry paper stuck in fouling. Keep a ball puller handy.

 

[netoleon]

In terms of a PC cartridge, yeah, no lube is correct and accuracy/sustained firing will suffer. Then again, when your front rank contains anywhere from several dozen to several hundred muzzles...those aren't the primary considerations.

This came up in a recent post, but it may have been an off-topic addendum...can't remember. Some of the "old hands" use a ball dipped in melted beeswax to include in non-pc cart.s. Also someone had a photo of a British-style ( tied-off ) cart. that had it's head ( up to the tie-off ) dipped in melted beeswax. Haven't tried those methods yet myself.

I use rolled catridges for much of my ball shooting, including riflery. I prefer a cartridge (pc or otherwise) to using a horn & measure in the wind, plus it increases my reload speed in a "time-challenged" range session immeasurably. I don't rely on the paper as patch material, but the beeswax idea has potential.

 

[riarcher]

"Nix" on the rifle idea. :nono:
No workable deer hunting accuacy with a cart?
Okay, scrap that idea too. :bow:
You just saved me a bunch of grief, lead, powder and time.
Thanks, what I really wanted to know. :thumbsup:

 

[flint62]

Don't get discouraged by the idea that you will lose accuray using a paper cart. Yes there will be some loss, but that's to be expected. The thing is, work on the load. Try different powder charges try using lube or not, etc. My gun has a .620 bore, I use a .600 rb and a lightweight paper. The tubes are rolled as per those links above. If I don'y lube the cart. then I need to swab after 3 rounds. Lately I've been dipping the ball end in a stiff lube normally used for bp cartridge guns. The beeswax may be a better choice. 75 grains of 3f and we're off. No it doesn't shoot as well as a patched ball, but I can tell you for hunting or a woodwalk, it can't be beat.
Just my 2 cents, if you have any questions fell free to contact me off the board, [email protected]

Try it you'll like it. :hatsoff:

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have used a paper wrapped cartridge with a 0.715 ball in my Pedersoli Brown Bess and got good accuracy. I now have a Loyalist Arms First Model. The bore is 0.77 and I still use the 0.715 ball in a paper wrapped cartridge.

Now for some second hand information. One of my fellow reenactors uses a Pedersoli Bess and he shoots a bare 0.735 ball. He does quite well. The 0.735 ball in a paper cartridge will be hard to load in your Bess after a few shots. My vote is for a paper wrapped 0.715" diameter ball lightly lubed. I dip the ball in a mixture of 1 part bees's wax and 5 parts of olive oil. I gently melt the bee's wax in the oil. The left over oil and wax makes a good general purpose lubricant.

Good Shooting

 

[paulvallandigham]

The problem with accuracy relates to the inconsistent seals over the powder based on using only the paper tube to seal the bore. Just use a 1/8" hard card wad over the powder before running the paper patch and ball down. If you are going to do sustained shooting, keep some lubricated cushion wads to go between the card wad and the patched ball, and you should keep the barrel clean of fouling enough to not have to worry much.

If you use the card wads, the increase in pressure will be enough to change the point of impact as much as an inch. On a deer sized animal, this is not going to be a problem. For target work, you may want to adjust your powder charge downward to get the ball back to the original point of impact.

I would not abandon the use of paper cartridges for hunting just because you can have group problems with sustained fire. Just how many shots are you going to take at a deer to kill it?

 

[riarcher]

To all, thanks for taking the time to reply.
But I think the Queation you read wasn't asked properly (by me).
I'm not concerned with PC, not for reenacting or anything like that. Just a handy hunting load.
I see no reason for a clover leaf group to be required for Bambi Slaying.
Looking for a fast, convienant, (hunting) accuate load.
IMO a 3 1/2 " diameter group at 50 yds. is great for me in the swamps where one can barely see 35 yds.
Some of my swamps are really "gnarly" and even a streamlined boattail bullet finds something to fetch up on. I've a couple of spots that would be perfect for an ant carrying a derringer. But since I'm slightly bigger than a ant, and no way can I do the derringer,,,, I'm thinking 3 carts in the pocket and go.
No bag, horn, short starter, pockets. None of that. Just a guick "mission" and out.
These are the areas I bowhunted with the longbow because it was the easiest to snake through the "pucker". (found this to be a hot ticket after the shotgun season - they'd "hole up" in clearings in the nastiest of cover)
Simply, "Simple but effective" will do.
PM's for personal opinions also welcomed.

 

[BS]

Wasn't sure where to post this, so I stuck it here.
Is it better to use a bigger ball and less paper wraps, or a smaller ball with more paper (on heavier loads of course)?
In particular, a .75 Bess with a .715 or a .735 ball.
I was thinking smaller ball with more paper would allow for some BB in the outer layer of the wrap to keep fouling soft?
And, maybe it don't matter?
And how would you keep the spue oriented the same each time?
How do you know if you're sealing properly with the paper wad? I mean there is no patch to find and "read".
I'm assuming "moderate" thumb presure is stived for on loading?
As you can tell, the paper cartridge is anouther new area for me to try. :grin:

This is a picture of the tubes and tapered mandrel that daryl S. uses. I made mine out ot a broom stick.

I use 20# printer papper [.0035] and with a 715 hard ball, 2 wraps is a slip fit,2 1/2 wraps, you need a short starter.

Use the big ball and tune the paper to fit.

For target shooting a lubed felt wad may help, or run a lubed patch after loading.

You never know if the barrel will like it dry or lubed, till you try. Alo try different lubes.

The cool thing about paper is the quick Loading! Tear the end of, pour, thumb it flush, then ram it all the way down.

Ok, I am using a rifled barrel, but a smoothie should work just as well. :v