Paper cartridges in Bess (or any other smoothbore)

[cmetucker]

Do you folks who shoot live (with ball or non-blank) paper cartridges lube the front, or ball containing part of the cartridge.

Seems that too much lube would soak into the paper and ruin the powder, and that too little, or no lube would lead to a bore that would be unloadable due to fouling in short order.

I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[musketman]

Do you folks who shoot live (with ball or non-blank) paper cartridges lube the front, or ball containing part of the cartridge.

Good question Ammodramus:
I dip the musket ball in molten bee's wax (or wax/alox mixture) and let harden prior to rolling the paper cartridges...

This way, the projectile has at least some kind of lube on it, and it won't run down into your powder unless it's really, really hot out...

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've solved that problem by adding an inner layer of waxed paper. Just enough for a wrap and a half around the ball.

 

[squirejohn]

I use the French style cone-shaped type paper catridge and dip the ball end in a liquid (warmed up) bear/beeswax lube. I haven't had any problems with fouling, but primarily use these catridges for biathlon events - a max of only 9 shots.

 

[frenchfusil]

Squire, I'm not sure I have run into that type of cartridge before. Do you a picture you could post or could you descride the construction?

Mkui Medal
(Red Leggins)
Guerre Abenakis

 

[squirejohn]

French Fusil, The construction of this type cartridge is shown on page 39 of SKETCHBOOK 76. Mine is more cone shaped than shown in the book because I glue the entire length of the seam rather than fold it up, therefore it isn't 100% PC. The dimension of the paper I use for 20g is: 5" along the bottom and 3" and 5" sides. I roll the paper on a dowel, remove the dowel and work it into a cone shape with my fingers. I then run some glue along the entire seam including the small end so that it is totally enclosed except for the large end of the cone. Put in powder, ball, glue and fold over the top, dip in lube and that's it.
PS Upon further review of page 39, I find my method is actually some sort of a bastardized cross between the English and French type. This seems to work better; don't have to bother with thread (English) and glue holds better than merely folding the bottom of the French type. It's easy and fast to construct and the small end of the cone makes for easy barrel insertion.

 

[RussB]

Do you folks who shoot live (with ball or non-blank) paper cartridges lube the front, or ball containing part of the cartridge.

Good question Ammodramus:
I dip the musket ball in molten bee's wax (or wax/alox mixture) and let harden prior to rolling the paper cartridges...

This way, the projectile has at least some kind of lube on it, and it won't run down into your powder unless it's really, really hot out...

Folks, What "kind" of paper are you using to roll the paper cartridge in? I've been playing with this for some time now, and I've got a strong feeling the kind, or type, of paper has a lot to do with the finished product.
-I have used plain "bond" computer / typing paper.
-Artist drawing paper (.003 thickness that I use for "paper patch" bullets in my 45-70.)
-I have used "onion skin" from Buffalo Arms.(also for Paper Patch)
-I have used plain brown lunch bag paper.
-I have used Newspaper.
Of everything I've tried, the plain brown paper from lunch bags seemed to work best...although they too leave something to be desired.
I'm told that "nitrate" paper is NOT good in this application, and I have not gone to the time / expense of trying to get some....

I would be very interested in hearing what paper everyone is using that gives good results.

Russ

 

[musketman]

A light paper would be ok, I've had good results with rice paper...

 

[Stumpkiller]

I have a bunch of ancient onion skin typing paper that I use. It is just brittle enough to tear easily. Good to hear someone still produces it. My supply can't hold up much longer.

Nitrated paper is unnecessary, and even has two failings: it tastes bad, and if a spark from a neighbor's vent drops into your belly box . . . :shocking:

 

I use normal ink-jet or previously, typing paper- works just fine and has for 20 years now. 2 wraps for loose fit, 3 for tighter fit- due to standard .003" thickness, you can custom fit for the accuracy you want.
; Dipping in molten BP lube works just fine and doesn't spoil the powder.

 

[cmetucker]

RussB,

I use plain brown wrapping type paper that can be found in 15' x 30" rolls at craft stores. Bear with me because I am not a paper expert, but I will try to explain...actually I will go get a roll and tell you what it is. OK...I use brown or white 'craft wrap' by Paper Reflections. $1.99 for 36 sq ft at the local crafts shop. Much thinner that postal wrapping paper; more like the small paper lunch sack.

But here is the great part. Take your trapezoidal template (made from card stock; back of a cereal box in my case), and if you flip the template over it will make a repeating pattern. So, take the roll of craft paper and cut off a piece the length of your template. I use a hack saw to work through the whole tube of paper, which although crude, gets the job done. I cut off 5" sections (perfect for my bess cartridges), so that I have a length of paper 15' long and 5" wide. I then use my template by turning back and forth to mark the whole strip of paper with pencil and cut of perfect cartridge papers as I need them. A 15' strip makes about 45 cartridges. As a bonus, because of the curvature of the roll of paper, they shape quickly to the former.

Hope that made some sense.

 

[RussB]

Ammodramus seez;....."OK...I use brown or white 'craft wrap' by Paper Reflections. $1.99 for 36 sq ft at the local crafts shop. Much thinner that postal wrapping paper; more like the small paper lunch sack."


Good tip sir. Can't say I've ever used that particular type of paper but I am willing to try.

The "paper lunch sack" works fine for my 1.25 oz of shot, OP wad, and Fiber wad, in my smoothie, but it is more of just a "shot" capsule, of sorts, I still have to pour powder and add an OS wad.....What I am looking for is something that is strong enough to manage the items I just mentioned, PLUS powder on the other end.
This just may be the ticket! :thumbsup:
I will let you know how it works out. Gotta go to town tomorrow and that will be on my list.
Thanks,
Respectfully, Russ

 

[Wes/Tex]

If you want a lot of paper cheap you need to check with any local printers, especially any that do local papers. They always have end runs of the roller paper that is of no use to them that may run 36" by as much as 20 feet long. Usually they'll sell them for next to nothing if not willing to practically give it away since it takes up room.

 

[musketman]

What I am looking for is something that is strong enough to manage the items I just mentioned, PLUS powder on the other end.
This just may be the ticket!

Perhaps a penny wrapping tube?

A penny will fit in the muzzle of a Bess, so a penny or dimetube should work...

 

[Grenadier1758]

The dime roll is just the right size for a shot cup for a Bess. The coin roll paper is reasonably strong and holds the collum of shot together. In any event as a shot cup, the dime wrapper works fine. Load the powder, start an over powder card just enough to start the dime roll with shot, cut off the excess paper and cover with an over shot card and load the charge.

I have found that the dime roll is just a bit too strong to be used as the basis for a cartridge, Its just hard to tear. I prefer typing paper since its cheap or newprint paper since it is thinner and easier to tear.

Mike
Private Grenadier
First of Foote

 

[cmetucker]

RussB,

It is strong enough. I have rolled several hundred, contained cartridges; ball and buck & ball, both English and french style (once I got my technique down, I came to prefer the tied English style) and never had my paper tear.

I use it for .75 and .62 paper cartridges. The dimensions of my .75 template are 6" x 5" x 2 1/2" x 6 1/8" (the diagonal measurement that connects the ends of the 6" & 2 1/2" side). Sorry, this is easy if you are looking at it, but hard for me to explain.

Please let me know if I need to try to further clarify.

 

[FearNot]

Newbie question here... When you fire off a paper cartridge, what happens to the paper around the ball? Does it split open and the ball come through it? Does it continue on down range covering the ball (affecting accuracy)? If you tie it between the powder charge and the ball, I'm guessing it splits, right? Newbie minds wanta know. ::

 

[musketman]

I'm guessing it splits, right? Newbie minds wanta know. ::

I believe it blows off like a cloth patch shortly after it leaves the barrel...

I have never found one at the target area...

 

The paper seems to end up in fragments thrown all round, while the ball carries on without any paper attached to it.
; The paper has never caught fire on me. It semed not to matter if I was shooting the rifle(14 bore rifle)with them nor the Bess, they both performed in a similar manner.
: When loading, the powder end is torn off, then the ctg is shoved into the muzzle so the powdeer can drain from it. By the time the rod is out, the powder has drained down into the breech. The whole works is then shoved down onto the powder.
: There is no string on my ctg. and they are tapered as I find that helps orientation and the speed of loading.
: Even with capping, my 14bore rifle's 30" bl. could be loaded in 8 seconds. Longer barrels take more time.