Paper Shot Cartridges

[BS]

I have been searching the archives and found a post by Musketman about "Paper Shot Cartridges for the Smoothbore, by Bill White".

Link to Paper Shot Cartridges for the Smoothbore

I made up several of these out of some of my heavy target printer paper. It is not as heavy as a file card, but it seemed to work OK.

I have not used shot since building the gun in about 89. Then I mainly tried to get Buckshot to pattern.

Been doing some reading and gathering info.....and bought nito cards and wads.....printed out some Turkey Targest.

My first two shots were with #9 shot......thats all I had!

Then off to fetch some #4 hard shot.....only had time to shoot One at 35 yds.

I need to do some patterning and want to make some of the cartridges out of heavier paper, to see what happens to the pattern.

I have some #5 shot, and will try it next. The paper was opened up just as stated....I like the pre-made tubes of shot.

I was using a -nito card/lubed wad/overcard/shot tube/overcard.

I will also try some without the lubed wad, just to see if the pattern changes.

I only have .002 of choke, so....any ideas on how to tighten the pattern?........or just move closer! :grin:

 

[Slamfire]

I think with so little choke you'd be hard pressed to git a killin' pattern at 35 yards. Try a couple of different shot sizes, then move up to 30 yards asd start all over agin. A reduction in powder charge might also help. :winking:

 

[BS]

I also figure 35 will be max, just need some ideas on how to even, or tighten the pattern up some. :hmm:

 

[marmot]

I had some success in tightening the pattern of #4 shot from my B Bess and Charleville by buffering the shot column with corn meal... using a paper tube, layer of shot, layer of meal, layer of shot, layer of meal, etc.. Keep in mind the extra weight of buffering material, whether meal, grits, cream of wheat etc., must be figured into your shot load weight... and corn meal WILL increase recoil for a given shot/powder charge if you don't adjust :winking: ...
I figured (based on patterning) it increased my effective range by 2-3 yards... doesn't sound like much until you're in the woods looking at a 25 yard shot with a 22 yard load, and no way to close the gap...

M

 

[musketman]

I also figure 35 will be max, just need some ideas on how to even, or tighten the pattern up some. :hmm:

Either add more shot or reduce the powder will tighten up a pattern to an extent...

Have you tried using coin rolls as shot cups yet? :hmm:

Penny rolls for 12 guage, dime rolls for 20 guage, you may have to perferate the sides with a pin to get them to open while in flight...

 

[BS]

Thanks to the both of you, buffer and coin papers! :grin:

 

[Runner]

Drop the lubed wad out, and keep the second over powder wad. Go to a 3-4 load. I use 90-120 for turkey. Number 5's or 6's seem to pattern best out on my gun, and they hit hard enough to do the job. That load kicks like a mule out of my little gun, but the bird rolled at 40 steps last spring. I would have filled both tags but I had a cap not go off at all on the second bird at about 10 yards. Just my luck. First dud cap in years and it happens on a 25 pound class gobbler!

 

[ffffg]

Runner, i dont know where south of the arch is, but ive found that if your in cold or dry temperattures, lube is needed in fact absolutley neccesry for subsequent shots to keep a pattern.. if your only going to shoot one shot and clean that would be different of course.. ive engaged in battles more than once with guys from florida insisting that they dont need lube/ or use plastic wads continuously without trouble.. it usually turns out they live in a warm damp environment.. where as in a cold , or hot dry environment id use lube, the colder it gets the more the better.. dave

 

[woody]

This is off the Caywood Website
Working up turkey loads for optimum pattern density.

In reading about recommendations for loading shot in smoothbores, we often come across references to the use of fiber wads, felt wads and heavy over-powder cards. Far be it from us to pretend that we know it all when it comes to shooting shot loads. However, it seems to be clear and reasonable when you stop and consider this; if the component over the powder is heavier than any individual shot pellet, it is very possible that the heavy component will overtake the shot charge after it leaves the muzzle and hit it. This quite often results in splotchy patterns or donut hole patterns. Sound familiar? If you've suffered this occurrence, here is a loading tip that might help put a longbeard on the table. This pertains to cylinder bore guns, but can be used in choked guns also. We recommend using only over-shot cards on the POWDER charge, if you want a tight pattern . The reason is that the light cards, say 3 or 4, seal the gases upon ignition and as they exit the muzzle, being light, they don't follow the charge and disturb it. They tend to go to the sides and leave the charge flying straight. If you desire a tight pattern for turkeys, purchase either nickel-plated, copper-plated, bismuth or any other HARD shot (not steel) of your choice. The reason for hard shot is this. If a round pellet stays round, it will fly straight. And by extension, 500 round pellets will fly straight if they stay round. When they get flattened or mis-shaped by the crush of the powder igniting, they will not fly straight and you will get many flyers. Bismuth may be the best because it is almost as dense and heavy as lead shot and almost as hard as steel. So it has the penetration of lead, but stays round for true flight to the target.

The suggested loading procedure for maximum pattern density is this;

Using your shot dipper as a powder measure, pour down a set amount ( example; 1 1/8 oz of volume for a 20 ga.), then seat 3-4 overshot cards on the powder to pack it and push out any air. Then take a single overshot card and push it down the bore approx. 3 inches. Now, take that same volume of shot, as used for the powder measuring, and drop it down onto the card where it will be visible. Then take a dipper full of cornmeal muffin mix ( not straight corn meal) and drop onto the shot. Tap the side of the barrel ( keep head and eyes from in front of muzzle!) until the shot works it's way to the top and the cornmeal has worked down into the shot charge. This will provide a buffering element so that when the powder ignites, the shot will push against the meal not the other shot pellets. Then place one overshot card on the shot load and seat it on the powder. The reason to use the muffin mix and not the straight corn meal is that there are sugars and fats added to the mixture that aren't present in the straight corn meal. Apparently, these pack somewhat and allow the charge to be bunched up for short distance from the muzzle, helping to give you a great pattern. We recommend using no. 7 or 7 1/2 size shot for turkeys for the pattern density. These size pellets will penetrate a gobbler's skull at 26-28 yards which is about as far as one should shoot at a turkey with a cylinder bore gun anyway. If this load does not give you a good pattern, try using one less increment of powder as thrown by your shot charger, so that you are using just a little more shot . If you are using choked guns, you can go to the bigger shot sizes. By all means experiment with your gun to see which loads pattern best for THAT PARTICULAR GUN. Sometimes, a gun will throw a better pattern when LESS shot and powder are used. And by using the corn muffin mix when you shoot a turkey, the bird is already smoked and breaded and ready for the frying pan when you pick it up.

 

[BS]

Drop the lubed wad out, and keep the second over powder wad. Go to a 3-4load. I use 90-120 for turkey.

3-4 is this 3/4 oz?

and 90-120FF?

..............................

woody,

I just tried 5 overcards/papercart-load/overcard

It was my worst pattern of #4s, I may have to try it with out the paper cartridge.

My shooting bench to the brush is 35 yds,[I have a nice bush to hold my target]. I may have to move the target closer.

4s are too big, I am going to try some hard #6s.

..................................................

I have a "smoothbore" folder started, and save all the info.

Thanks for the Ideas and Information!
Bruce

 

[Rebel]

I think when refering to his 3-4 load he means 90 grs of powder and 120 gr equivelent of shot.

 

[BS]

That makes sence, Thanks Rebel!

 

[Runner]

Three parts powder to four parts shot. It will tighten up the group and as long as you are still getting good penetration, that is a good thing. I am using a 6mm over powder card that is a beast to get started down the barrel, but I get really good patterns.

 

[Flintlock58]

Before you give up on the cartridge try using one shot card over the powder with a felt wad over that then the shot cartridge.

 

[BS]

Runner, a 3 to 4 ratio looks very good.

Flintlock58, I really like the idea of a paper cartridge......I just made some bigger ones. My first bunch were the same size as the powder charge.

I shot several filled to the top and a card over the open end........I think I like the folded over ends work better.

I will buy some hard #6 shot tomorrow and retest with the bigger cartridges.

Thanks to All! :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

BS: I made my shot wads out of 3M post-it note paper, wrapping it around my mandril twice and using the glue strip provided to seal the tube. Then I close one end, after inserting a cushion wad. I dip the tube into some heated parafin wax, and let it cool and set on wax paper. I then cut slits in the other end of the tube to help the tube open and fall away from the shot charge when it leaves the barrel. I like #5 shot, because of its weight, and down range energy, and the fact that I can load 1 1/4 oz of shot and get about the same number of pellets as I would get in an 1 1/8 oz charge of #6 shot. I use 2 3/4 drams( 75 grs.) of powder in my 12 gauge cylinder bore gun, and get good patterns out to 35 yds. Any two pellets in the head or neck area of a turkey will usually kill it cleanly. My groups tend to show a minimum of 3 hits in that area, and usually 4 or 5. Obviously, when hunting, you try to pick your shot for closer ranges. I have not tried using the corn meal mix in my shot wads, but I am impressed enough by what I have read here to give it a try. I would not use a 90 grain powder charge, much less 120 grains behind shot, as this just puts the load over the speed of sound, and it will be coming back down below the speed of sound( the sound barrier, 1100 fps approx.) within the first 20 yards. That tends to open the patterns unnecessarily, and I find I get better, ( more dense) patterns if I start the shot out at under the speed of sound.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

FWIW, I buy corn shucks at the grocery Mexican food section for making up shot cartridges in the fusil. I soak them in water, then do a dowel wrap with a string tied twist on one end, then dry. With the twist done right, no over powder card is needed.

I have even taken bunnies using them loaded with picked up pea gravel. I doubt the gravel idea is new, would think birch bark should work just as well as the corn shucks.

 

[BS]

BS: I made my shot wads out of 3M post-it note paper, wrapping it around my mandril twice and using the glue strip provided to seal the tube. Then I close one end, after inserting a cushion wad. I dip the tube into some heated parafin wax, and let it cool and set on wax paper. I then cut slits in the other end of the tube to help the tube open and fall away from the shot charge when it leaves the barrel. I like #5 shot, because of its weight, and down range energy, and the fact that I can load 1 1/4 oz of shot and get about the same number of pellets as I would get in an 1 1/8 oz charge of #6 shot. I use 2 3/4 drams( 75 grs.) of powder in my 12 gauge cylinder bore gun, and get good patterns out to 35 yds. Any two pellets in the head or neck area of a turkey will usually kill it cleanly. My groups tend to show a minimum of 3 hits in that area, and usually 4 or 5. Obviously, when hunting, you try to pick your shot for closer ranges. I have not tried using the corn meal mix in my shot wads, but I am impressed enough by what I have read here to give it a try. I would not use a 90 grain powder charge, much less 120 grains behind shot, as this just puts the load over the speed of sound, and it will be coming back down below the speed of sound( the sound barrier, 1100 fps approx.) within the first 20 yards. That tends to open the patterns unnecessarily, and I find I get better, ( more dense) patterns if I start the shot out at under the speed of sound.

What size is your cushion wad? You insert it into the cartridge, right?

I hadn't thought about the speed of sound, but it makes sence.

Thanks,
Bruce

 

[BS]

FWIW, I buy corn shucks at the grocery Mexican food section for making up shot cartridges in the fusil. I soak them in water, then do a dowel wrap with a string tied twist on one end, then dry. With the twist done right, no over powder card is needed.

I have even taken bunnies using them loaded with picked up pea gravel. I doubt the gravel idea is new, would think birch bark should work just as well as the corn shucks.

I like the idea of using corn shucks, it sounds very flexable, even a bit Traditional! :grin:

Thanks,
Bruce

 

[BS]

I did some testing with no. 6 copper coated shot. I tried less powder and the groups got tighter. Tried splitting a wad then wrapping another split one around it. Alternating the splits, it grouped better.

Then I double wraped one, keeping the gap at the same place. [2 near wraps, followed by 2 more near wraps. It fit the bore tighter and did slpit OK.....probably my best pattern so far at 25yds.Very even! :grin: [I moved the target closer]