paper shot cups

[Trapper]

Hey everyone:
I recently built a 16 guage flintlock and am having trouble with getting a good pattern. I have heard about using paper shot cups and was wondering if anyone has experimented with them? They might not be period correct but they had paper cartridges, why not paper shot cups. Any information would be helpful, I don't want to repete an experiment if it has already done.

 

[Slash]

The guys in our group use the subscription cards from the inside of magazines to make the cups. They roll them like a penny roller (from the bank). It seems to help. Some of them even add a little cream of wheat (cereal) to the shot.
Slash

 

[roundball]

Hey everyone:
I recently built a 16 guage flintlock and am having trouble with getting a good pattern. I have heard about using paper shot cups and was wondering if anyone has experimented with them? They might not be period correct but they had paper cartridges, why not paper shot cups. Any information would be helpful, I don't want to repete an experiment if it has already done.

Maybe you'll have better luck than I did...but from my range trips testing different paper shot cup configurations, my conclusion was if the paper shot cup did not burst inside the bore before muzzle exit, it was going through the target as a slug.

It seemed that the diameter of a filled, seated paper shot cup still had to be enough smaller than the bore diameter to allow it to expand enough at setback time so it would burst before muzzle exit.

If they cleared the muzzle still intact, without any 'petal' cuts in the paper, there was nothing to flare open and in less than the blink of an eye the entire 'shot slug' would be through the target.

After a few range trips where a fair amount of money was[url] spent...in[/url] gasoline alone...I knew that when they acted properly, they produced outstanding results, simulating a choke and great long range patterns.....but I also knew I would still get a 'shot slug' often enough not to want to risk it happening at the very rare moment of getting the bead on a Tom Turkey's head at 40yds.

So for less money than I'd already wasted at the range, I sent my .62cal barrel to a gunsmith and had him "Jug Choke" it Full.

Now it's just powder, Oxyoke wad, #6 shot, and OS card...averages 16 pellets in a 5" circle at 40 yards...outstanding shot performance...and PRBs still shoot perfectly through it as well.

So based upon all the above, my recommendation to anyone trying to improve shot performance in a cylinder bore barrel by using paper shot cups is to go spend the $60 to get it Jug Choked and be done with it.

 

[taylorh]

AMEN!
Taylor in Texas
:hatsoff:

 

[Joel/Calgary]

If you haven't already seen it, there's a related discussion going on in the thread "lead Shot".

Joel

 

[Black Hand]

I use newspaper and tie the shot inside. My mandrel is a piece of brass tube that is a bit undersized to the bore. I wrap the newspaper around (just under 2 full wraps), tie the end with thread, fill with my load of shot and twist tight & tie the other end (think Tootsie Roll with short tails). I like to dip the entire load into melted lube to keep down fouling. Since they are under bore size and the paper is not too thick, I have not had one come out as a "slug" as the tied tail seems to "crack" the wrapping. I load powder, one thin overpowder card, the pre-made shot load, and another thin card over the shot load.

These premade loads are much easier to use than a shot pouch, and as they are lubed, I have not had the terrible fouling/loading problems that occured with "naked" shot.

 

[peashooterJoe]

I make mine out of post it note paper around a wood dowel. I roll and glue Fiber wad at bottom let dry and fill with shot fold over with a coin roll fold , lightly grease outside of bottom where the fiber wad is. When loading give a good thump and paper will tear. Quick easy and gives a good pattern when I hunt turkeys.I tried newspaper a it was little thin. The paper usually winds up about 2 to 3 foot from barrel.

 

[BS]

I have tried all kinds of paper and cardstock for shot cups, some helped.......a tiny bit, but, I have to agree that a jug choke is the answer.....

Forget the paper and get a choke :v

 

[Mike Brooks]

I have tried all kinds of paper and cardstock for shot cups, some helped.......a tiny bit, but, I have to agree that a jug choke is the answer.....

Forget the paper and get a choke :v

DITTO! :applause: I've tried all kinds of paper type shot cups/rolls. Some would give great results for 5 or six shots then go all to hell on the next shot. I've never found them consistant enough to use. Jug choke is the way to go, consistant every time. :thumbsup:

 

[peashooterJoe]

Be all right if someone in my area did jug chokes. But theres not, so have to make do with what you got.

 

[Dave K]

Joe, with todays shipping services, you can have the barrel, to a barrel man within 2 days. Possibly have it back on the gun within a week. Don't let a barrel go un-jug choked because the service is not local.

 

[ronrryan]

A barrel Man! For those of us not knowledgeable, could you name a couple? Thanks, Ron in Fla

 

[Rebel]

Here is one

Lowell Tennyson
209 E Lotte St.
Blue Grass IA. 52726
563-381-3711
[email protected]

 

[roundball]

A barrel Man! For those of us not knowledgeable, could you name a couple? Thanks, Ron in Fla

This is who I used in March of this year...jug choked a .62cal GM Flint smoothbore for me...excellent
Lowell Tennyson
209 E Lotte St.
Blue Grass IA. 52726
563-381-3711
[email protected]

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've got some period information on paper shot cups as they were used in the 18th century. I'll see if I can locate it today. These were used on guns with a funneled muzzle though, not the crowned muzzle we're using today.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Maybe you'll have better luck than I did...but from my range trips testing different paper shot cup configurations, my conclusion was if the paper shot cup did not burst inside the bore before muzzle exit, it was going through the target as a slug.

Roundball, did you try any that were simply shot cups loaded in separately as components, rather than load-in-as-a-unit shot cartridges?

As with your experiences, what I've found and all I've read says the shot cartridges need to split in the bore, either on loading or on firing, in order to pattern reliably. With my rough bores, I prefer to avoid shot touching the barrel, so I haven't worked too extensively with the simple shot cartridges, but even the ones that opened reliably sometimes produced non-circular patterns, or else they were light enough that they had little effect on the pattern, and often wore through, giving limited protection to the shot that they did still cover (rough bores certainly exacerbate this).

As with plastic shotcups (when the petals are properly separated before loading), there are a couple of kinds of load-as-separate-component shot protectors have opened absolutely reliably. At a minimum, they've prevented bore-scrub of the shot, and the ones of stiffer materials appear to further tighten the pattern at least somewhat, but I haven't shot and counted enough patterns yet to provide statistically-significant quantitative comparisons.

If just for a swatter speed-load for finishing off wounded ducks, I'd like to work up either a shot cartridge or an all-in-one cartridge, with some sort of shot protection inside a paper envelope, but I haven't gotten there yet. I did one trial of 20ga shotcups (plastic) inside paper shot cartridges in my 16ga, but the patterns weren't consistently circular, and I need to do some more experimentation. In addition to the problem with the protection opening reliably and falling away cleanly, there seem to be problems with the shot charge tipping as it exits related to the base not being square to the bore, although this might also be related to the falling-away-cleanly part.

I'd be interested to hearing more about your experiences.

Joel

 

[roundball]

Roundball, did you try any that were simply shot cups loaded in separately as components, rather than load-in-as-a-unit shot cartridges?

That's the only way I tried[url] them...in[/url] my .62cal, I'd drop in powder, then seat one Oxyoke prelubed wad down on the powder;

Then I'd barely start a second Oxyoke wad and sit an empty paper cup down on it so it was just below flush with the muzzle;

Then I'd pour in the shot, then an OS card, then gently seat that whole arrangement all the way down;

They worked very well, gave me excellent tight patterns at 40yds, etc...but...just when I'd think I had the design solved after shooting a dozen test shots, I'd have one go right through the target like a slug.

Turkey hunting is tough under the best of circumstances and I made the decision I wasn't going to go through all that you go through to hunt Turkeys and have that happen...got the barrel jug choked and it's fantastic...powder, an Oxyoke wad, shot, an OS card...averages 16 #6's in a 5" circle at 40yds...if a turkey can survive that then he deserves to live forever :grin:

 

[The Baron]

I can't claim to have done "extensive" testing... but I tried shot cups in my 12ga. percussion that were made from both post-it notes and also brown craft paper. After perhaps 6 shots with each type of paper, my results varied widely, from worse patterns that no shot cup, to one "slug" incident. I decided I felt the same way as roundball, in that I didn't want to take any chances when I finally got a big Tom in close. I'd rather have a more open, reliable pattern and focus on getting the target a bit closer, rather than leave any room for Mr. Murphy to join me in the field.

 

[ronrryan]

Roundball and Rebel: Thanks much for the info--Ron in Fla

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Ahh... Then we have the same results, except that I gave up on un-slit shotcups, but not on DIY shot-protectors in general. The ones I've found that work reliably are all, in effect, cut/slit before they go in. They work more-or-less like commercial shotcups, but they may not tighten the pattern as much as the unsplit home-made ones do (when they work).

Joel