Parker-Hale disintegrating stocks?

[TFoley]

Gentlemen, particularly Messrs Minshall, Curtiss and Squire Robin -

A gentleman who writes that he was an executive with Euroarms in the 1970's made this interesting comment on another forum -

'QUALITY OF THE EUROARMS ENFIELDS?

Equal to if not superior to that of Parker-Hale. "One advantage that the three band Euroarms LAC Enfield had was that it used a one piece" wood stock while the P-H product used a "two piece" stock that was joined under the rear band. Unfortunately, these two piece P-H stocks had a bad tendency to come apart at the most inconvient times, providing the unhappy P-H owner with a "pump action" P-53 Enfield!'

I have three of the early P-H three-band guns, and none of them have this feature...there are many P-H guns in our club - no Euroearms AFAIK - I'll be checking this out.

Whinemeal, has anyone ever heard of it?

tac
Supporter of the Cape meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

tac, yes I have. I didn't pay much attention to it at the time (nearly 40 years ago) but I was told and shown an example of the long rifle musket with a spliced stock. Is it possible that it was done on guns intended for export rather than the ones being sold in Britain?

 

[TFoley]

tac, yes I have. I didn't pay much attention to it at the time (nearly 40 years ago) but I was told and shown an example of the long rifle musket with a spliced stock. Is it possible that it was done on guns intended for export rather than the ones being sold in Britain?

Thank you, Sir - VERY interesting that you should say that as the general understanding here in yUK is that the home market gets the leavings and the export market gets the best. Certainly I had to wait almost four years for my Whitworth as 90% of them were for export - I was actually told this by Roger Hale his own.

EDIT - I just got replies from four other owners - none of them have spliced stocks - same era as mine, too [1980's].

Thanks again.

tac

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Hmmmm, that's interesting. It's a very good question that you ask. Maybe a catch as catch can thing on the stock wood. All that I remember seeing was good quality wood, even the spliced stock.

I last had an opportunity to buy one of the Parker-Hale Rifle Muskets (P53) when I was working on the filming of "Gettysburg" back in the summer of '92. The fellow wanted the princely sum of $325 and I just didn't have the money at the time. That was a reasonable price even then. Wish I had been able to buy it, it was a beauty and well maintained. I don't remember whether it was a two-piece stock but I think I would have noticed if it was.

 

[poordevil]

have the English built musketoon from the 1970's with 4 digit ss# I did hear that the 3 banders had a 2 piece stock. Maybe just the 1970 models?

I know, too that the Itailian P-H guns have an English made Parker-Hale barrel but Itai wood, etc.

As a side note.Back in 1973-74 when I got my musketoon, I wrote P-H and asked when they would offer a 3 bander. I nice lady wrote me back saying, at that time they did not intend market a 3 bander. Maybe they were trying to figure out how to stock it.

 

[Zonie]

My Parker Hale, serial # 301x 3 band Enfield has a 2 piece stock.

The only indications of it is there is a slight mismatch in the grain of the wood at either side of the rear band and after some scraping with my thumbnail in the barrel channel I could see the joint used to connect the two pieces.

This joint is not a butt joint but rather, it is a multiple V glued joint.

So precisely are the V's made that there is no apparent gap between any of them and they are only visible because of the slightly different color of the wood.

I believe the person who posted your reference post was exaggerating to say the least when he said, "...providing the unhappy P-H owner with a "pump action" P-53 Enfield!'"
This type of glued joint has a great deal of surface area making it quite strong and is unlikely to come apart. Even if it did, as the left hand of the shooter is not grasping the stock forward of the rear band it is unlikely that it would act as a pump action.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

tac, Zonie is correct concerning the method and quality of the splice work done on the P-H guns, it was top flight. I just saw the post from the gentleman on the "other" forum and I can not agree with much of anything he said concerning the quality of the British made vs. the Italian Enfields. If any of the Parker-Hales with two piece stocks came apart, I have never heard of it and doubt that I ever will. Most of what he said was "horse hockey" or what is better known as :bull: But then he was an executive so what do we expect.

And as a side note, the quality of the locks is in no way comparable - hands down the PH is better.At least he did admit that the color casehardening of the British made gun was better. I won't comment on that forum due to my position there, but sheesh....

 

[BillinOregon]

The Finns used finger-spliced stocks on a lot of their M39s and I'd be proud to go into combat with one of these durable, accurate bolt guns. Done right, this is a very strong joint. First I have heard of it on the British P-H Enfields, though. They have a very fine reputation here.

 

[Tumblernotch]

tac, as I mentioned to you before, I have an early Birmingham made P-H Whitworth (#61). Although it is well made and the wood to metal fit is excellent, it has a two piece stock. The joint is a multiple saw tooth (vee) joint with two dowels on either side of the ramrod hole on an axis with the barrel. After several rounds with a 70 gr. charge, it will separate. I have to loosen the band screws and push the stock back together by tapping the nosecap with a mallet and re-tightening the screws. I suppose I could/should glue the joint and that would take care of it. The last time I had it out it didn't separate. If it does again it'll get glued.

 

[TFoley]

Gentlemen, thank you all for your replies. I will now go back to the other site and eat crow pie.

I have to admit that I had never encountered such a gun.

As for the matter of the lock - I'll rely on your judgement as I've never seen inside a Euroarms lock.

Thanks again

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Gentlemen, thank you all for your replies. I will now go back to the other site and eat crow pie.

I have to admit that I had never encountered such a gun.

The fact such guns exist is a problem for you but the fact that you and the other members of your shooting group in Britain do not own any is the basis for your statements. You are fine in my estimation. Add that to the fact that no one here or anywhere else has ever had one of the spliced stocks come apart makes the gentleman's statement questionable at best.

As for the matter of the lock - I'll rely on your judgement as I've never seen inside a Euroarms lock.

Thanks again

tac
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

It's not just a matter of appearance, the Parker Hale locks are simply better made - not just in appearance as he infers, but also in function. The Italian locks while functional out of the box are like two pieces of sandpaper rubbing together. And the springs? Well, there is no comparison.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Mine has come apart a couple of times. Recoil has a way of separating a stock that hasn't been glued. The forward part simply shifted forward about an inch. This happened over a period of several shots a little at a time so that I didn't notice it at first. If it had been a musket using service loads, it may not have done it. But the Whitworth is notorious for its recoil and even with the light 70 gr. load (under a 560 gr. cylindrical), it's pretty stiff.

 

[Ian]

I have a beautiful PH P58 which has a 1 piece stock and I got from a friend yrs ago a PH Whitworth that he special ordered with presentation wood back in the 70's It has a 2 piece stock, the grain is perfectly matched how I will never know, I never new until I removed the barrel and saw the faint outline of the joint yrs later I shoot 90gr 3fg behind the 535 bullet and have had no problems nor do I have any recoil problems after I learned how to hold it without crawling up on top of it. cheers Ian.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Mine has come apart a couple of times. Recoil has a way of separating a stock that hasn't been glued. ................

You're saying the stock was assembled and not glued? That is definitely a problem and a first for a high quality firearm, the only time I have ever heard of that on a Parker-Hale.