patch box on a fowler"

[tg]

"They were not called patchboxes until the 1800's. Just "brass box" or "wooden sliding box" etc. It's really the caplock era when they were commonly called patchboxes."


Rich, check out my post above taken from an 18th century advertisment, there are some others as well that I have seen, but "box" is more common.

The term smoothrifle is also in 18th century writings along side fowling gun and smooth bore gun and other such terms that prettty much identifies it as a seperate type, and in the Grinsdale book do any of the fowlers have cheek pieces, rear sights or grip rails on the trigger guard? or exceptionaly heavy breeches, or cals from .65 and down in conjunction with any of the above?I have not seen this book yet.

 

[rich pierce]

Good reference, thanks! I got caught generalizing again! :redface:

I think we can often get stuck on a name and make conclusions that are maybe a little iffy. If a box on a rifle is called a patchbox, does that mean that it always, and only, contains patches for loading a round ball? And if a similar box is found on a smoothbore, would the maker or owner call it a patchbox, would they carry patches in it and only patches, and would that mean they were using patched round balls in their smoothbore? I think the answer is probably "probably not" for most of these questions.

In addition to possibly holding tools and flints and patching material (what I use it for), there is the possibility that in early rifles, they may have sometimes carried patched round balls with the patch lightly secured with a string or a stitch. There is an original 1760's-1770 Pennsylvania gun known as the Deschler rifle. Inside the side-opening "patchbox" are numerous round depressions which are of a size which would accomodate a round ball with a patch tied or stitched around it. Just one hypothesis. The holes, drilled with a spoon bit, are definitely not leftover holes for making the patchbox cavity.

 

[tg]

Utility box may be the best term, Holy BP Batman! I am still curious about all those fowlers with boxes, if they had any rear sights cheekpieces or other riflre traits.

 

[Shine]

Here is some food for thought. If someone always loaded thier rifle with a patched ball. After they wore it out and had it reamed smooth. Would they not continue to load it with a patched ball. :hmm: This being circumstantial evidence for using a patched ball in a smoothbore.

 

[rich pierce]

Interesting thought, but probably even rifle folks also knew how to load a smoothbore with shot, ball or buck and ball.

 

[tg]

But haven't we established that they were smart enough to know how to do it, so........ :shake:

 

[KJGROHS]

Just think of the hunting possibilies there hmmm...

 

[2 shots]

perhaps a snickers bar

 

[tenngun]

Yes, that's what I was thinking. If fowling pieces were made with patch boxes, is that evidence that PRB were used in them?

Spence

No,
Patch box is a relative new name, and American to boot. Such boxes were placed on European guns for years. While seen on any gun it was mostly Central European rifles, although seen elsewhere. These were called butt traps. Trap refereeing to a excavated space, not a place to trap something
In 1847 a HBC officials described patched ball In Canadian smoothbores as a normal practice, not as unusual or a new invention so I THINK it was well know before that. But a patch box on a smoothie is just evidence of a place to put a tool kit or cleaning supplies

 

[Rudyard]

No,
Patch box is a relative new name, and American to boot. Such boxes were placed on European guns for years. While seen on any gun it was mostly Central European rifles, although seen elsewhere. These were called butt traps. Trap refereeing to a excavated space, not a place to trap something
In 1847 a HBC officials described patched ball In Canadian smoothbores as a normal practice, not as unusual or a new invention so I THINK it was well know before that. But a patch box on a smoothie is just evidence of a place to put a tool kit or cleaning supplies

I call them' tool boxes' maybe you could keep patches but mine hold a draw charge ,A jag. vent pick .flints & a bit of rag to stop rattles big deep affairs not the useless shallow ones sliding wood or brass or iron lidded according to the piece .& Caplocks get a few caps ' I think them useful but if its some archaic piece then a bore hole to admit of a wire brush to serve as a useful no loose Jag with another hole to snub out your match cord along with two of three holes to admit of quills that serve as a vent plug should it be wet .
Rudyard.'s take on such things

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

12 YEAR OLD THREAD.

 

[Robin101]

Its' been done, just not in the time frame your'e looking for.