Patch Knife?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Is a patch knife "useless crap"?

 

[Claude Mathis]

Is a patch knife "useless crap"?

For someone who uses his belt knife to cut at the muzzle, carrying an additional knife, just to cut a piece of fabric, it may be. :wink:

 

[BrownBear]

Sure is for me.

About 10 years back I got all inspired and made a dandy little one from a leg-hold trap spring. Great looking and sharp. Carried it a few times and quit. If I thought real hard about it right now I MIGHT be able to tell you which drawer it's in, but I'd need to do some serious digging to get to the bottom and confirm.

 

[Bo T]

Is a patch knife "useless crap"?

Nope. For most who have peeled spuds with a butcher knife. A nice little Paring (aka-patch knife) is a welcome addition. Some combine the two into a small butcher or a large paring knife. But, that is most useful if you need to be traveling light.

 

[Black Hand]

Is a patch knife "useless crap"?

It certainly could be.
If its only purpose is to cut a piece of cloth, then it is truly useless crap. On the other hand, a knife has many uses, one of which could be to cut cloth...

 

[curator]

For serious target work, I prefer a patch knife that is sharpened on only one side. That way, I can cut as close to the muzzle as is humanly possible and also avoid scratching/scraping the muzzle of my rile. Patch knifes made like this cut the smallest patches possible assuming the ball is flush with the muzzle. Having a short starter that seats the ball exactly flush is a big help, otherwise you have superfluous patch material to fold over the ball. I am not sure that this degrades accuracy, bit it may. I have found that the closer I can cut patched, the more accurate the shot will be. When using square-cut, pre-cut patches, I have found that trimming the extra cloth did help shrink group size. I am a big fan of Dutch Shoultz's accuracy method, which advocates for close cut patches.

 

[SacramentoJohnson]

I have and use a small neck knife with around 3 1/4 blade and decent sized handle. I don't cut patches with it; prefer precut and lubed ones. Nonetheless, I find lots of uses for this sized knife that a larger belt knife would be awkward for. Doesn't bother me to carry two knives (neck and belt); each has their uses.

 

[Black Hand]

I carry several edged implements: belt knife, folding knife (gun bag) and polled belt axe. On occasion, a penny knife in the pocket of my waistcoat.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks, gang. So did any shooting bags have a knife w/ scabbard attached to the bag?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Having a short starter that seats the ball exactly flush is a big help, otherwise you have superfluous patch material to fold over the ball. I am not sure that this degrades accuracy, bit it may.

Extra material does not degrade accuracy one bit. Years ago on an off weekend at Friendship, the great Webb Terry did experiments on that very issue. He crammed quite a bit of patch cloth down over the ball and shot. He spent a half day doing this with various materials and quantities. Result? Extra cloth not a factor regarding accuracy. The cloth drops away very quickly without disturbing the flight of the ball. FWIW, I seat my ball about 1/8" below the muzzle.

 

[necchi]

did any shooting bags have a knife w/ scabbard attached to the bag?

No. But folks do it.

 

[BrownBear]

did any shooting bags have a knife w/ scabbard attached to the bag?

No. But folks do it.

Actually there are numerous examples of knives on bags and bag straps in the originals that Grant photographed for his book "The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch." I found over a dozen while thumbing only a little way through the book just now.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I opened my copy up and found the same thing. But, I do know that some of the bags therein were "restored" by the author et. al. so not sure.

 

[BrownBear]

I have to doubt that Grant went about adding features and calling them restoration. Until someone proves beyond a doubt Grant was adding knives, I'll continue to use him as an authority.

 

[Artificer]

It seems the bags with attached patch knives are at the earliest late flint or early percussion rifle period? That makes me wonder if the hunters/users of those bags no longer commonly carried a belt knife and thus needed a patch knife with the bags?

Gus

 

[robinsroost]

Having a short starter that seats the ball exactly flush is a big help,

Seating a ball even with the end of the muzzle is easy, put the patch over the muzzle, put the ball on the patch, put the flat of the knife on the ball and give it a smack. It would probably be a good idea to face the blade away from you. Keep yer powder dry........robin :wink:

 

[Claude Mathis]

...easy, put the patch over the muzzle, put the ball on the patch, put the flat of the knife on the ball and give it a smack. It would probably be a good idea to face the blade away from you.

I use the butt of my knife to gently push the ball just below the muzzle. No need for 'smacking' or a separate tool. :wink:

 

[BrownBear]

That makes me wonder if the hunters/users of those bags no longer commonly carried a belt knife and thus needed a patch knife with the bags?

I'm not seeing much to convince me that all the early folks even wore belts, so on or in a bag has plenty of validity in my mind.

I started looking at alternatives to belt carry when I proudly wore a sash I'd made myself. Rotten knife would end up in the small of my back in the first quarter mile of walking. Even if I could draw it from the sheath, I always had to go fishing for the sheath and drag it around front so I could replace the knife.

As for using my knife rather than a short starter, I'm happiest now laying the blade flat against ball and pressing down with the other hand for a nice flush seat. I tried the hilt for a while, and it took a beating. Even as cold wet hands sure made the grip slick. Seemed I really needed to beat on the ball too, if a tight patch fit. Laying the blade flat lets me put lots of pressure on without any hard work and pounding.

I don't like to drag the blade across the muzzle scratching both when cutting a patch, so I always lift my knife up a little- no matter how deep or shallow the ball is seated.

 

[Artificer]

I am unsure how much we can take from the few remaining original 18th century Shot Pouches/Bags other than none seem to have an attached knife. I am pretty sure the remaining Pouches were just "Day Pouches" used by those who hunted occasionally and not those who wore them often. That's why those pouches have survived. Still as you mentioned, they could have carried one of the very common and rather inexpensive folding knives in those pouches or even a small sheath knife.

I also agree that sashes and woven belts seem to have been more common in the 18th century than leather belts, to keep the open front Hunting Shirts closed. I think that's why period scabbards had ties on them to tie them as securely as possible to the sashes/woven belts. Then as more men began wearing an outside leather belts, scabbards changed to incorporate some kind of loop to go on the leather belts.

Gus

 

[Cruzatte]

That makes me wonder if the hunters/users of those bags no longer commonly carried a belt knife and thus needed a patch knife with the bags?

I started looking at alternatives to belt carry when I proudly wore a sash I'd made myself. Rotten knife would end up in the small of my back in the first quarter mile of walking. Even if I could draw it from the sheath, I always had to go fishing for the sheath and drag it around front so I could replace the knife.

I customarily wear a sash. My knife sheath has a copper button that has an eye soldered to the back and I simply hook the button over the edge of my sash and the sheath stays put very nicely.