Patch Material Question

[coloradoclyde]

You should also know that Dutch is known for helping folks get their rifles to the point where the shooter can shave the wings off a fly at 25 yards, while not harming the fly....

You mean we're not supposed to harm the fly?......OOOPS!. :shocked2:

 

[flyfish]

I know this is a rookie question because I'm a rookie at this muzzle blasting thing.
I currently buy pre-lubed patches but have considered doing what you guys are talking about here making my own patches. I have a .50 cal, so how big should I cut my patches? Do you just use scissors or a straight edge and a utility knife?
Thanks.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I know this is a rookie question because I'm a rookie at this muzzle blasting thing.
I currently buy pre-lubed patches but have considered doing what you guys are talking about here making my own patches. I have a .50 cal, so how big should I cut my patches? Do you just use scissors or a straight edge and a utility knife?
Thanks.

A lot of us (most?) cut at the muzzle. Regardless, size not important. The sides of the ball must grip the bore. Cut a few and try. About 2"X2" should be more than enough.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Hey guys as another newbie does making your own patches cost less than just buying pre made pre lubed ones? I would assume so but wonder how much the savings would be.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Hey guys as another newbie does making your own patches cost less than just buying pre made pre lubed ones? I would assume so but wonder how much the savings would be.

That depends on a lot of factors....If you are really frugal (like me) the cost is zero. I use material destine for the second hand store and use spit for lube...
There are also benefits beyond price....availability and uniformity, for example....
Even if I buy the material and make my own lube it is still far cheaper....

 

[Billnpatti]

Using worn material is not a good idea because it is almost always worn unevenly so that it is thinner in some areas and thicker in others. Patch thickness is one of the things that has an effect on accuracy. One thing about muzzleloading is that consistency in all things is paramount. It is far better to go to a fabric shop and select some 100% cotton, tightly woven fabrics. You will need a micrometer http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-inch-range-digital-micrometer-895.html to measure the thickness of the fabric and choose a few different thicknesses to try out. You can buy fabric in small pieces to determine what thickness your rifle(s) like. Once you know that, go back and buy a few yards of that exact fabric from the same bolt. As I am measuring the thicknesses of the fabric, I make a very small note of the thickness on the end of the cardboard tube around which the fabric is wrapped. That way, you can find the exact bolt from which you cut the piece of fabric that your rifle likes best. For most shooters, the best patch fabric is pillow ticking or pocket drill (the fabric used to make pockets). Some folks have found that material as thick as denim works for them but usually it is too thick for most rifle and ball combinations. Be sure to check the discount table to see if they have any fabrics that will work for you. Dyes and patterns make no difference but are usually found on fabrics that are thinner than ideal.

Let me make a recommendation that you buy a copy of Dutch Schoultz' accuracy system. It is extremely valuable information that will serve you well for as long as you shoot muzzleloaders. www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com It goes into great detail on the selection and lubrication of round ball patches. That and much more valuable information. It will save you much more money than it costs in just powder and lead. And, it will save you a lot of time in finding that ideal load for your rifle. :thumbsup:

Thoroughly wash the fabric when you get it home to remove all of the sizing from it. Do not use any fabric softener as it will adversely effect the absorption of lubricants.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I prefer a digital calipers over a micrometer.....It has a larger measuring surface which works better for fabric.....I also thing a calipers is a better tool for a newbie because it is far more versatile than a micrometer....If I was just starting out and could only afford one it would be a calipers.

Just my opinion, not a point of argument....

 

[Zonie]

I know this is a rookie question because I'm a rookie at this muzzle blasting thing.
I currently buy pre-lubed patches but have considered doing what you guys are talking about here making my own patches. I have a .50 cal, so how big should I cut my patches? Do you just use scissors or a straight edge and a utility knife?
Thanks.

A good patch size for your .50 caliber gun would be about 1 5/16" to 1 3/8".

The cut patch can be round or square. It doesn't matter as either shape will shoot the same.

A good ballpark estimate for a patch size for any caliber gun can be made by multiplying the bore size times 2.6

Hey guys as another newbie does making your own patches cost less than just buying pre made pre lubed ones? I would assume so but wonder how much the savings would be.

If you buy your material at a cloth store, it is usually priced by the yard.
The materials width can vary but often it is about 48 inches.

A yard of 48" wide cloth would have 36 X 48 = 1728 square inches of area.

If the patch was 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" square it would have a area of 2.25 square inches.

1728/2.25 = 768 patches.

Just for the sake of being on the wasteful side, lets say 68 of the patches were not usuable. That still leaves 700 patches out of a yard of material.

(For the 1 5/16" square patch mentioned above for a .50 caliber bore, that yard of material will produce almost 1000 patches.)

Prices for cloth vary but I've seen them run from $5/yard to $15/yard.

Lets say it is $10/yard.

$10/700 patches = 1 1/2 cents per patch.
That's $1.50 for a hundred of them.

I haven't priced store bought pre lubricated patches for a long time but I see Midsouth has un-lubricated patches for about $4/100.
Track of the Wolf is asking about $6.50 for 100 lubricated patches.

Lubricating your own patches costs way less than a penny each if something like a vegetable oil is used.
Other patch lubes will cost a bit more.

 

[Mean Gene]

I just started making my own from .018 pillow ticking, I use Frontiers anti rust and patch lube to lube my patches.
I can't give you a dollar amount in savings but I will say that both pillow ticking and lube go a long way compared to buying pre-made.
JMHO Gene

 

[coloradoclyde]

Here's a great start on making your own lubes... http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/203261/

Many guys just use beeswax and some other fat like lard or olive oil....Some guys use Ballistol or Hoppe's
The one thing I never recommend is a lube that has no MSDS sheet or ingredient list.....You have no way of knowing what they are selling you...usually it is "snake oil" I've seen guys buy $2.00 worth of Crisco, repackage it and sell it to unsuspecting newbies for $10.00... :td:

 

[Don Steele]

:shocked2: :shocked2: :shocked2:
OMG..!!!!
Since getting Dutch's System, All this time I've been shooting the Fly so as not to damage the wings.
Darn it...I'm gonna have to go back a re-read all his material. :shake: I must have missed something. :redface:

 

[azmntman]

:shake:

I f you guys er using Dutchs system you shuld have moved on from flys to gnats by now. :slap:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Colorado Clyde Wrote:
If you are really frugal (like me) the cost is zero. I use material destine for the second hand store...,

Yep that's frugal. As I mentioned in a previous reply, the part of a pair of jeans below the knees gets very little wear so would work for this.

As for cutting your own patches, many of us use a strip of cloth, lubed or with spit, and place it over the muzzle after loading the powder. Then the ball is seated..., the little brass nub on most short starters is used for this..., which puts the ball below the edge of the muzzle. THEN the remainder of the material is cut away with a patch knife. :wink: And the freshly patched ball is then rammed down to rest upon the powder.

What that does is give the shooter a custom fitted patch each time.

Now, some folks like to use pre-cut patches. Some folks buy them and sometimes these are bought pre-lubed. So sure that drives the cost up a bit, especially with the pre-lube as one can make lube a lot cheaper than buying it. YET..., it's only a few dollars and if you don't shoot more than a few times each year, the savings are small. The advantage is..., IF the thickness is correct for your particular barrel and ball...you get a rather uniform source for patches. The problem is sometimes the store bought ones simply aren't thick enough and the next size up is too thick or doesn't exist.

Some folks like to pre-cut their own patches, and they often cut them square. Square really won't hurt the accuracy much if at all, especially when a shooter alone (without an aid or bench) is firing. The best way that I've found to figure out what size of square patch to cut, is to retrieve one of the used patches that were cut at the muzzle. Measure the diameter and add 1/4 inch to get your size. That gives you 1/8 of an inch extra on all four sides when you use that measurement to cut the length and width, using a pair of good scissors.

Frugal? Collect up the spent patches when done shooting IF you used spit, as this won't work with lubed patches. Inspect them for any problems then save them up and when you have enough, use a tea tin to make them into char cloth for your flint and steel. :grin:

LD

 

[Dr5x]

rdstrain49.
I think that washing the shooting patch material to remove the sizing makes sense. Particularly if the new material tends to stiffness.
Oddly, I have no memory of washing any patch material but most of the denims I bought were quite soft.
I will be 89 next thursday so that should tell you a lot about my memory. Lincoln had a high pitched voice.
I made a device that served as a bench rest and tray to hold balls and other supplies away from the wind which has a weighted curtain to block the wind and that material does seem a bit stiff after all these years so I may not have pre-washed the fabric
A lot of the sizing would have left when I was treating the the shooting strips with water soluble oil which involves soaking them in a water/Water soluble oul mix prior to evaporation and while that wouldn't REMOVE the sizing it would certainly soften it up.

Next Thursday will be my annual half price sale for them as
want the whole [ackage for less

There are some folks on the Forum who I have worked with involving multiple emails back and forth to figure out just what the H is wrong with their rifles. If the bore isn't bulged and is in relative good shape , you can achieve surprising accuracy . When I was spending most of my days at the range I worked with I don't know how many different rifles with surprising success. Many were old, beat up, rather neglected looking rifles, but if the barrel is OK hits fun to work with them.
To read the posts you would think I was the only resource. There are too many guys out there getting good results using different methods. I tend to help those who are near giving up with a method that worked for means now a number of others.
I tend to run on as stated before. I have added 50 additional pages of related stuff based on answers to questions received over the past 34 years.. Something to read and disagree with on these cold nights sitting by the fire.

Dutch O ---therwise known as Blind Willy the Typestter

.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Frugal? Collect up the spent patches when done shooting IF you used spit, as this won't work with lubed patches. Inspect them for any problems then save them up and when you have enough, use a tea tin to make them into char cloth for your flint and steel.

That's what I do....Leather shotgun wads I reuse.. :thumbsup:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

:thumbsup:

LD

 

[coloradoclyde]

Picking up my patches also keeps my range from looking like the god awful disgusting mess of a public range......It also makes it easier to find my patches for inspection because they are the only ones on the ground at any given time....

I also use dirty cleaning patches for charcloth ... Some cleaning patches will get reused.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I too am frugal Clyde and use stuff over, but generally not patches. The material is so cheap, especially if you use a coupon or watch for a sale at a fabric store that I don't bother. I do pick up my patches at the range. The range where I usually shoot is public and has some grass, so finding them all just doesn't usually happen.

I too use spit patches at the range and some sort of oil or grease when hunting and when the firearm will be left loaded for a time. I've used everything from Crisco, Hoppes 9 black powder lube, to home made stuff. All seem to work about equally well for hunting purposes.

I like to try to shoot a nice group, but I have difficulty doing that now days mostly because old eyes don't work as well as young eyes. Most of my guns will work shoot better than I can utilize.

 

[mooman76]

I've used old cotton dress shirts allot. Old as in I never wear them and probably never will, but still in good shape.

 

[rdstrain49]

Thankee kindlee Sir. There is a signature line on this or another forum , if I could remember who's it is I'd surely give credit. it says "Young guys should hang out with old guys. Old guys know stuff." You sir are the personification of knowing stuff. Thanks again.