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Patch or Wad
- Thread starter charliek
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I've used both methods on two different smoothbores and each gun preferred a different method. Your best bet will be to try a patched ball with and without wads or cards, bare ball with and without cards above and below. You'll also need to experiment with powder amounts as well. Your gun will tell you what it's happiest with. Besides, it good reason for the old, "Sorry dear, have to go out and try some different loading methods. Haven't found the right one yet". Yeah, right! :wink:
54ball
62 Cal.
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One thing you will quite often in discussions about period smoothbores is there is no evidence of the patched round ball being used.
There are several accounts of wading and single ball or a single shot being used. I'm not saying the patched ball was not used in a smooth bore, there is just no evidence it was. If was it was done by someone with a rifle background and it was not documented or that documentation has not come to light.
I know you did not ask for a period load but there my be some reasons a smoothbore was loaded different than a rifle.
The first reason I can think of is it's simply not a rifle. The bore is smooth so that means there is no grooves to take up the extra patching.
All is well when it is clean but when fouled the patch and ball can stick and stick good requiring the ball to be tamped down. This is not a good scenario with the wooden rod.
Now you may never be in a situation where you have to fire multiple shots but if you were you can see where this could be a detriment.
You'll have better luck getting a bare ball through the fowling than a patched one. Also the wadding kind of cleans the barrel a little. Along that line some use a over powder wad and a patched ball.
Another thing is you can pull a load easier. A worm can grip most wadding so pull the over ball wad, let the ball roll out, make sure the powder wad stays put, load your shot and you have simply changed from a ball load to a shot load by simply pulling the wad. Of course make sure the frizzen is up, cock is down vent sealed or cap uncapped if percussion.
Try linen tow flax as over powder and over ball wads.
Try blanket wool as over powder over ball.
Since you are using no patch try a larger ball.
Of course try the patched ball and combinations of patching and ball size.
Just do not over look period methods. You may be very surprised in the results.
There are several accounts of wading and single ball or a single shot being used. I'm not saying the patched ball was not used in a smooth bore, there is just no evidence it was. If was it was done by someone with a rifle background and it was not documented or that documentation has not come to light.
I know you did not ask for a period load but there my be some reasons a smoothbore was loaded different than a rifle.
The first reason I can think of is it's simply not a rifle. The bore is smooth so that means there is no grooves to take up the extra patching.
All is well when it is clean but when fouled the patch and ball can stick and stick good requiring the ball to be tamped down. This is not a good scenario with the wooden rod.
Now you may never be in a situation where you have to fire multiple shots but if you were you can see where this could be a detriment.
You'll have better luck getting a bare ball through the fowling than a patched one. Also the wadding kind of cleans the barrel a little. Along that line some use a over powder wad and a patched ball.
Another thing is you can pull a load easier. A worm can grip most wadding so pull the over ball wad, let the ball roll out, make sure the powder wad stays put, load your shot and you have simply changed from a ball load to a shot load by simply pulling the wad. Of course make sure the frizzen is up, cock is down vent sealed or cap uncapped if percussion.
Try linen tow flax as over powder and over ball wads.
Try blanket wool as over powder over ball.
Since you are using no patch try a larger ball.
Of course try the patched ball and combinations of patching and ball size.
Just do not over look period methods. You may be very surprised in the results.
I thought that using a bare ball over a wad was baldersash many years ago when I first heard it, but I have found that a .610 ball in my .620 barrel, or a .590 ball encased in a paper tube from a cartridge both shoot much better than a patched ball in the same gun. A long time smooth bore shooter told me his hypothesis was that the folds formed by the patch are not consistent as they are with a rifled barrel; thus it causes the ball to sometimes do odd things in flight.
I don't know but it makes sense, and either way the evidence for my gun points to bare ball or cartridge. Your results may vary.
LD
I don't know but it makes sense, and either way the evidence for my gun points to bare ball or cartridge. Your results may vary.
LD
Capt. Jas.
58 Cal.
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Depends on whether you are looking for 18th century traditional or 20th century modern. Either way, some time needs to be spent optimizing the load.charles keller said:
Many Klatch
69 Cal.
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Most serious smoothbore competition shooters at Friendship use patches. In my 20 ga I shoot a .60 ball with .010 patching over 60 to 75 grains of 3F (depends on which 20 ga that I am using)
Many Klatch
Many Klatch
Billnpatti
Cannon
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My personal opinion is that you should use both a patch around the ball and an OP wad. I have found the combination of both in a rifle to be a "good thing", as Martha Stewart would say. So, there is no reason to think the combination in a smoothbore would not also be a good thing. A bit of experimentation will tell the tale.
I'm no expert on smotthies but have learned a lot on this forum.I've got 2 right now i'm shooting a TC 56cal SB and a 62 cal flinter built by Mr Christian in Ms.I plan to work up a load soon for my TC New Englander too.I get pretty good groups with felt wad over powder and felt over ball with each.The best groups were with felt over powder and a PRB for both of them.But with some tinkering with loads get the almost the same group sizes with a felt wad,ball felt wad combination.This is what I use now due to the ease of loading!!! The 62 cal will produce less than 2.5 inches groups @ 60yrds.The 56 cal will give me about 3" groups @ the same range.Bottem line like others said do some shooting see what works best for you.Enjoy :thumbsup:
Grandpa Ron
45 Cal.
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54ball has done a good job of describing the advantages of a traditional load. I have worked with both traditional loads and the patched round ball in my 28 gauge.
When using the traditional methods of wadding, the ball size is less important. You can shoot an 8” group at fifty yards with almost any reasonable sized balls. The historic standard ball for any gauge was .015” to .058” under bore size.
When it comes to target shooting the rules change, because now we are looking for the ultimate accuracy. Taking time to swab between shots, smacking a tight fitting ball/patch combination with a short starter, weighting balls and powder and Teflon patching are not an issue.
I watched a shooter place 3 of five shots touching and the other two just barely outside the group on a ground hog target, off hand at 25 yards during the Nationals at Friendship. Obviously he was an excellent shot but his equipment and procedures were well developed.
Meanwhile back in the real world, my standard load for my .540” barrel is 65 grains of 2f (most use 3f) a well lubed .020” patch and a .526” ball. I am also experimenting with a ¼” cushion wad between the powder and patched ball.
My traditional load is 65 grains of powder, a 1 ¼” length of sisal rope pulled apart and fluffed for wading, bare .520” ball and a touch of wadding on top to hold it all in place. This is a lot slower to load than a PRB but it is a historic load for reenactment events.
I would definitely try both the traditional wadded load and the PBR to see which you and your gun like best.
When using the traditional methods of wadding, the ball size is less important. You can shoot an 8” group at fifty yards with almost any reasonable sized balls. The historic standard ball for any gauge was .015” to .058” under bore size.
When it comes to target shooting the rules change, because now we are looking for the ultimate accuracy. Taking time to swab between shots, smacking a tight fitting ball/patch combination with a short starter, weighting balls and powder and Teflon patching are not an issue.
I watched a shooter place 3 of five shots touching and the other two just barely outside the group on a ground hog target, off hand at 25 yards during the Nationals at Friendship. Obviously he was an excellent shot but his equipment and procedures were well developed.
Meanwhile back in the real world, my standard load for my .540” barrel is 65 grains of 2f (most use 3f) a well lubed .020” patch and a .526” ball. I am also experimenting with a ¼” cushion wad between the powder and patched ball.
My traditional load is 65 grains of powder, a 1 ¼” length of sisal rope pulled apart and fluffed for wading, bare .520” ball and a touch of wadding on top to hold it all in place. This is a lot slower to load than a PRB but it is a historic load for reenactment events.
I would definitely try both the traditional wadded load and the PBR to see which you and your gun like best.
Done/do both and sometimes a combination of the two but generally I have done better with a patch.
Sometimes I have to use a wad as a fire wall to protect the patch.
My lube does not make loading a fouled bore a problem! Ever!
B.
Sometimes I have to use a wad as a fire wall to protect the patch.
My lube does not make loading a fouled bore a problem! Ever!
B.
satwel
40 Cal.
I started out shooting a patched ball on top of a fiber over-powder wad in my 20 gauge. Very inconsistent results. Decided to lose the fiber wad and just go with PRB. On a good day, it will group almost as well as my rifles out to 50 yards. Don't care if it's HC or not.
Going with every one here,I never get as tight groupes as some of the folk mention with either patch or wad... and think it is my fault.I'm sure that a rifle man who came in to use a smoothie patched his ball,though he didnt write it down. But in the long run a wadded round ball will give you deer killing acuracy out to 50 yards or so. Useing blanket wadding will load fast and keep the shots on target,and for sure is mentioned in the past. you can experiment but what ever you use will shoot better then 90% of archers, andbetter then 50% of shot gun slugs.
Grandpa Ron
45 Cal.
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It is my belief that smoothbore shooters and traditional archers share the same mind set, “It is not how far you can shoot but how close you can get”It is important to know you limitations.
Rather than compare my smoothbore shooting to others, I compare my smoothbore shooting to my rifle shooting. My rifle group is about half of what my smoothbore group is and some days my rifle group is nothing to brag on. :wink:
Both my rifle and my smoothbore are 54 cal., weight about the same, use the same powder charge and patching, however, the rear sight, set triggers and rifling give the rifle a distinct advantage.
Given the choice I will shoot a PBR, though I am still experimenting with a wad under the ball. Still, I do some reenacting events and if the group wants to shoot using traditional methods, I have no problem with a powder/wad/ ball load.
Rather than compare my smoothbore shooting to others, I compare my smoothbore shooting to my rifle shooting. My rifle group is about half of what my smoothbore group is and some days my rifle group is nothing to brag on. :wink:
Both my rifle and my smoothbore are 54 cal., weight about the same, use the same powder charge and patching, however, the rear sight, set triggers and rifling give the rifle a distinct advantage.
Given the choice I will shoot a PBR, though I am still experimenting with a wad under the ball. Still, I do some reenacting events and if the group wants to shoot using traditional methods, I have no problem with a powder/wad/ ball load.
hanshi
Cannon
Are you talking about the ball inside a lubed, paper tube sort of like the old musket cartridges? Never tried anything like that but it might work fine. I can get 5" to 6" groups at 50yds with an op wad (cushion) and a .605" WW ball held in with a card wad. I get very good results with a .590" ball and .016" lubed patch. My .62 is a shade undersized, apparently.
Those of you who shoot RB, patched or otherwise...do you have choked BBL? That is my delimma...cylinder bore and improved on my double. I wonder what effect a tighter choke has both on the bbl and target?
