Patch Thickness and Pyrodex Loads

[snarker6]

Whats the difference between patch thickness in muzzleloaders? I have .10 pre-lubed patches and some lead bullets (not round I forgot what theyre called but its kind of conical shaped). On an unrelated matter, I am wondering how many grains of pyrodex I should use with a sabot bullet? I am starting out at 60 gns. Any help is appreciated.

 

[kje54]

Whats the difference between patch thickness in muzzleloaders? I have .10 pre-lubed patches and some lead bullets (not round I forgot what theyre called but its kind of conical shaped). On an unrelated matter, I am wondering how many grains of pyrodex I should use with a sabot bullet? I am starting out at 60 gns. Any help is appreciated.

Is this an inline you're referring to? I ask because you bring up sabot rounds. This site is for traditional muzzleloaders up to 1865 and traditional lead ammo and we have the people who can answer pretty much any question concerning traditional muzzleloaders including cap and ball revolvers. However, if it is a modern muzzleloader you have I would suggest the sister site, Modern Muzzleloaders for the wealth of expertise in that area.

Modern Muzzleloader

 

[snarker6]

Its a traditions deer rifle kit I built recently. Here it is:

 

[bang]

What it the twist?
I don't know of any conicals or bullets that you use with a patch.

 

[kje54]

Its a traditions deer rifle kit I built recently. Here it is: View attachment 57749

Awesome. There are those who can definitely help you out with your patch question however sabots are a forbidden subject per the site rules. With the conicals you may be talking Minie balls.

Someone should be by soon to help you out in that department, unfortunately I'm still learning myself but I do know there is no need of a patch with a Minie ball.

 

[snarker6]

Here are the patches and bullet I am talking about:
The bullet is about 250gn (.50) and the patches are .10 thick
What grainege of pyrodex rs (ff2) would make a good load (for target shooting)

 

[kje54]

Here are the patches and bullet I am talking about:
The bullet is about 250gn (.50) and the patches are .10 thick
What grainege of pyrodex rs (ff2) would make a good load (for target shooting)

View attachment 57759

I did find this chart, hope it helps.

Black Powder Conversions

 

[deermanok]

You don't need a patch for those bullets. Patches for round balls.
I'd say to start with about 60 grains of powder. Do you have a powder measure?
You can use a felt wad between the powder and bullet.
Some type of lube for those rings on the bullet helps with loading.
Whatever you can find in a gun shop will work or something like Crisco is a good lube.
Start with 60 grains and increase in 5 grain increments until you find the most accurate load.

 

[deermanok]

Kinda hard to tell in your picture but the bullet you have there looks like a Hornady PA conical. If so, they're greasy enough and don't need any other lube.
Your traditions deerhunter rifle is a good choice. I have 2 myself, a
50 caliber and a 45 caliber.

 

[snarker6]

Thanks, the bullet's lube is dried up so I will be sure to get some. Unfortunately, I need to get a bullet puller because there is powder and bullet but it wont shoot. I am sure that there is powder in there. My guess is that some oil is left over in there from when I built it and was trying to get the nipple to thread in.

 

[kje54]

Thanks, the bullet's lube is dried up so I will be sure to get some. Unfortunately, I need to get a bullet puller because there is powder and bullet but it wont shoot. I am sure that there is powder in there. My guess is that some oil is left over in there from when I built it and was trying to get the nipple to thread in.

One of the things you'll need if you're using Pyrodex are magnum caps not regular caps, it's harder to ignite pyrodex than black powder. There are a few threads on here that cover dry balling or safely removing a ball/conical with non fired powder behind it.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Magnum caps are not necessary. Just remember to wipe the gun free of oil and snap a cap or two before loading.
Walk

 

[Musketeer]

I know Pyro works fine in revolvers with regular caps, but that's a straight-through shot from cap to charge. The only experience I have with Pyro in a long gun was in an old TC Hawken I had when I was first starting out. I don't recall having issues setting off charges of Pyro with standard #11 caps, but I didn't keep the #11 nipple on it for very long. I replaced it with a musket nipple after shooting maybe 70-80 shots, not due to ignition problems, but just due to musket caps being physically larger and easier to handle. I guess the necessity of using magnum caps would depend on how direct and open the path for the cap's flash is in a particular gun?

 

[deermanok]

Thanks, the bullet's lube is dried up so I will be sure to get some. Unfortunately, I need to get a bullet puller because there is powder and bullet but it wont shoot. I am sure that there is powder in there. My guess is that some oil is left over in there from when I built it and was trying to get the nipple to thread in.

You can unscrew the nipple, put some powder in the drum, reinstall the nipple and fire the rifle. You might have to repeat the process a second or third time but it will go boom.
Once cleared, you should give the barrel a good good cleaning with hot soapy water.

 

[JGW006]

. . . you may be talking Minie balls. . . . but I do know there is no need of a patch with a Minie ball.

Is there no need for a patch with minie balls due to more bearing surface of the bullet with the bore as compared to round balls? Or is it something else?

JGW

 

[mooman76]

There is no need in fact, it the minie is the right size, you won't get it down the bore with a cloth patch.

 

[Frontier's]

before loading and shooting that rifle, you may want to watch some videos on youtube about loading, shooting, cleaning. There are book books out there that help a lot. The fact you don't know that conicals do not require patches, worries me about your lack of knowledge. Black powder can be a painful when you mess up and something comes apart in your hands. There are plenty of good videos out there.

I'll provide my personal video as a helper.

 

[kje54]

Is there no need for a patch with minie balls due to more bearing surface of the bullet with the bore as compared to round balls? Or is it something else?

JGW

the Minies were designed to expand into the grooves when fired which is what made rifled muskets so deadly during the Civil War. One of the reasons the casualties were so high was the combination of rifled muskets and the use of old Napoleonic tactics designed for massed armies with smoothbores. Tactics had not caught up with technology and the technology was devastating at the time.

 

[JGW006]

That makes sense. Thank you.

JGW

 

[JGW006]

Follow up question (I also am new to muzzle loaders): In a revolver, can you use a conical, and is there a pro or con of doing so as compared to a round ball?

JGW