Patches always torn

[Snydly]

Hello everyone.
I know we’ve all read posts about patches and lubes until some are tired of seeing them. But here’s mine.
My .54 flintlock has given me problems since birth. The attached photo shows how they all look after being shot. I’ve tried pillow ticking. Store bought .018 cotton patches and #40 drill. They all look the same. TOW mini oil, spit and Mr Flintlock lube. I’ve used both .530 and .535 round balls.
I’ve tried smoothing the muzzle crown and scotchbrite pads at least 200-300 strokes.
I even considered it being my short starter so I pulled a ball after it was about an inch . inside the bore. Not that either.
I’ve tried 2F and 3F from 50-90 grains
Any more ideas?
By the way, if this helps this rifle fouls more than any I’ve owned. I’m so envious of those saying they can shoot all day without swabbing. I can barely load a second ball unless I run a patch down the barrel. I’ve always figured it was the high humidity here in FL. Or maybe others used way more lube than I do.
Thanks for any ideas.

Give this a try.... after loading powder place a patch over the powder by itself and then load your regular lubed patch and ball. check your patches then(the one with the ball).

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm in the smaller ball with a thicker patch. The patches seem to indicate some roughness in the lands that is rubbing holes in the patch.

 

[Caterpillar Hunter]

TarponStalker, you're describing precisely the same problems I'm going through with my 3 year old Rice barrel on a custom built flintlock. It has always been rough on patches. I used to shoot 90g 2F Goex, but now must shoot 80g Swiss, which, I think, seems to be a lot hotter shooting powder. I swab with a little alcohol on a cleaning patch after each shot. TOW mink lube. Thick patches anywhere from 0.018" to 0.023" miked. I usually use an OxYoke felt wad. Use my own cast balls, either 0.530" and lately have tried some cast 0.526" (Bag Molds by Larry Callahan--very nice). There seems to be one area on the patch that wears through the worst. Well, just lately I ran into very nice Rice Barrel rep who was nice enough to send me some of their lapping compound. I've lapped the bore twice now for a total of maybe 100 push/pulls. The barrel does load and clean up more smoothly but patches still are cutting and especially on one side I described previously. I could keep lapping some more, but I don't want to over do and go too far. I don't know what the limit should be for lapping. I know I should be able to easily shoot a 0.530 ball with Mink Oil on a 0.020" patch and have the patch come out in pretty good shape. If I had the tools and shop to unbreech the barrel I would, but I guess it is what it is. When you solve your problem please let me know.

 

[Grenadier1758]

...I know I should be able to easily shoot a 0.530 ball with Mink Oil on a 0.020" patch and have the patch come out in pretty good shape. If I had the tools and shop to unbreech the barrel I would, but I guess it is what it is. When you solve your problem please let me know.

Caterpillar Hunter, you are describing the theory that your 54 caliber rifle should be able to easily shoot a 0.530" ball with a 0.020" thick patch. Unfortunately, your rifle seems to want something different with regards to the practice of shooting.

I believe that Rice Barrels use a gun metal grade steel that is harder than most traditional barrels. You will need to do some more lapping of the bore. You will have to do more than a few thousand passes with the lapping compound to adversely effect the bore. A few hundred more push/pulls with lapping compound are on your agenda.

At this point you may be seeing benefit from using the Ox-Yoke wad over your powder to cushion your patched ball.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

Do you know what type of linen you used? I bought some a few months ago but it is so thin/loose woven that I didn’t think it would work.

I use linen from Jo-Ann's fabric. It's butternut in color and is slick to the touch. Runs about .015 th.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

I think what Rock Home Isle describes fits the bill here. #40 drill cloth is pretty tough material with a tight weave. For that to be shredding I'd say is a sign of a rough barrel.

I've smoothed some of mine out using maroon scotch brite and various grit compounds.

I thought about trying a .526 ball and thicker patch just to see. You’re correct about the op wad. I tried some corn meal over the powder and it did work better. I just hate to add one more step if I don’t have to.
I’m pretty sure it’s a Rice barrel. It came with a popular kit. I hate to sound like I’m bashing the kit producer so I won’t say.
It’s almost as if there’s one bad land since it’s mostly only one cut area.
I need to change something that I haven’t done yet. As I mentioned I can barely load two shots without swabbing with an alcohol patch. I’m not too lazy to do that but can’t help to wonder why mine is different.
That’s part of the fun isn’t it?

If it's a Rice barrel that came with your kit, it would be marked "Rice".

 

[pmccoywss]

Do you know what type of linen you used? I bought some a few months ago but it is so thin/loose woven that I didn’t think it would work.

I picked up some old napkins from Salvation Army. Napkins and old tablecloths can be found there, at auctions and garage sales, or in you grandmother's (or mother depending on your age) dining room dresser drawer.

 

[flntlokr]

Hello everyone.
I know we’ve all read posts about patches and lubes until some are tired of seeing them. But here’s mine.
My .54 flintlock has given me problems since birth. The attached photo shows how they all look after being shot. I’ve tried pillow ticking. Store bought .018 cotton patches and #40 drill. They all look the same. TOW mini oil, spit and Mr Flintlock lube. I’ve used both .530 and .535 round balls.
I’ve tried smoothing the muzzle crown and scotchbrite pads at least 200-300 strokes.
I even considered it being my short starter so I pulled a ball after it was about an inch . inside the bore. Not that either.
I’ve tried 2F and 3F from 50-90 grains
Any more ideas?
By the way, if this helps this rifle fouls more than any I’ve owned. I’m so envious of those saying they can shoot all day without swabbing. I can barely load a second ball unless I run a patch down the barrel. I’ve always figured it was the high humidity here in FL. Or maybe others used way more lube than I do.
Thanks for any ideas.

My guess is a rough spot in the barrel. Find a bore light (endoscope) and take a look. You could also load a 'dryball' and blow it out with air pressure and see if the patch is cut the same way.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

You might need a .526 ball. I have a barrel that needs a .520. Don't believe that all .54 barrels work well with a .530. I have a .50 caliber rifle that the barrel is so undersized the best ball to use is a .475 RB !! A .490 will not even start even with a paper patch, and that patch is .004 thick.

Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[longcruise]

When I encounter a patch cutting barrel, particularly Spanish and Italian made, I go straight to firelapping using firelapping specific materials. Next i address the crown. Most production barrels have horrible crowns that can damage the patch before the trigger is even pulled!

There is no point in torturing yourself with endless trials of different patching, lubes, ball size, etc.,etc.

 

[M. De Land]

I thought about trying a .526 ball and thicker patch just to see. You’re correct about the op wad. I tried some corn meal over the powder and it did work better. I just hate to add one more step if I don’t have to.
I’m pretty sure it’s a Rice barrel. It came with a popular kit. I hate to sound like I’m bashing the kit producer so I won’t say.
It’s almost as if there’s one bad land since it’s mostly only one cut area.
I need to change something that I haven’t done yet. As I mentioned I can barely load two shots without swabbing with an alcohol patch. I’m not too lazy to do that but can’t help to wonder why mine is different.
That’s part of the fun isn’t it?

I hand lap quite a bit with poured lead laps and various grades of lapping compound. The first thing needed is a good bore scoping and plug gauge check. This will determine the problem area and approach to fixing it . Lead laps maintain proper bore profile without rounding land corners off as does abrasive patches. The lead casting, being a perfect mirror image of lands and grooves, smooths all the surfaces together, not just the high ones.
A well rifled barrel of good gun barrel quality steel will usually correct itself after 50 to 100 shots of a properly fitting patch and ball but if it won't then something else is amiss and needs addressed.
By the way, Green Mountain is only one of the very few who actually uses certified barrel steel in their product , most others use 12L14 which is not nearly as strong in shock load but the low pressures of black powder allow it to be used without incident (most of the time). It machines very smoothly and is cheaper than 1134 certified barrel steel which is why it is used by so many.
12L14 cannot be relied upon to stand short starts or anything else that can cause a pressure spike. I saw one come apart last winter from a short start in a friends rifle. He had loaned it to a new shooter who fired it without ramming the ball home after a short start. It ruined a beautiful full stock flint gun which had taken many game animals.