Patching / loading technique

[cschibi]

After competing in my first flintlock competition, I noticed everyone in the competition was using a patching / loading technique that was very different from what I was doing...I must be doing things wrong... EVERYONE I saw was using a pillow ticking or other (denim) like material that they cut off at the muzzle after seeding the ball with a hammer and press. Some of the older guys sucked on the material before placing it on the muzzle... they hammered it in with a ball starter then use their ramrod to ram it down with considerable force!

I have been using the pre cut / lubed patches provided by most of the key providers you can purchase from, but none of these required the force to seat the ball against the powder load that others I witnessed.

They were shooting extremely accurately..."OffHand". These guys were crazy accurate!

I know my shooting variance is more related to my offhand shooting technique and lack of experience but does that patching /loading technique make that much of a difference?

I believe I understand the shooting model that Dutch S' subscribes to.. but I am curious of what other members have experienced.

Thoughts?

 

[gwalker]

Chris,

It depends on how competitive you want to be. Those that load their rifles like you describe are into developing the best accuracy possible and typically load their rifles from the bench. I am not that competitive. When I started out shooting my m/l rifle nearly 40 years ago, I too used a tight fitting ball and patch combination that I needed a short starter to start into the muzzle. But I soon learned that there is no historical evidence of short starters in the 18th and 19th centuries. Others may know better than me, but I believe short starters came into use in the 1930s. I really wanted to emulate the longhunters of the eastern region and the mountaineers of the Rockies. Thus, I tossed my short starter and developed a patch/ball combination where I could start the ball into the muzzle with my thumb and then use my rifle's ramrod to seat it on the powder. I also load my rifle from my pouch and have never used a bench for loading. I enjoy competitive shoots, but in Wyoming they are mostly attended by others that just enjoy shooting their m/l rifles amidst good fellowship; nobody is overly concerned about who wins. I also enjoy hunting with my rifle and I shoot rabbits in the heard at 40 to 60 paces. But once I tossed my short starter and developed a ball/patch combination nearly 35 years ago for my 54 cal custom made Lancaster rifle wherein I could start the ball down the muzzle with my thumb, I have enjoyed shooting my rifle much more. I enjoy the rifle frolics, hunting, and just an afternoon relaxing alone while shooting my rifle among the Tongue River cottonwoods at clay targets or a steel spinner. I leave the paper targets at home.

George

 

[stantdm]

I use a "ribbon" of patch material that I cut after the ball is just below the muzzle. It is just thick enough to give a bit of resistance with the round ball I use and can be seated easily. It is accurate enough for my needs. The ribbon of cloth is sometimes prelubed and sometimes I just put it in my mouth. Doesn't seem to matter which way I do it as far as accuracy is concerned. Either one is okay but won't win any shooting contests.

 

[smo]

Some say cutting at the muzzle centers the ball better in the patch. I can't say as I disagree with that. As to sucking the patch material it's just whats referred to as spit patching. I shoot the same method that you just discribed I use a small wooden mall to pound a tight fitting patched round ball home then seat it with a ram rod. Works for me :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

If you are really, really good at shooting offhand and your looking for that little 1/4 inch of improved accuracy then, try the methods those guys are using.

If your just a "good" shot when your shooting offhand, the little improvement they are getting won't make enough difference in your score to make the effort worth the trouble.

I'm sure there were others at the range who are no better than you but they are trying the tight ball/patch/hammer method to get that last little bit of accuracy. I suspect when all is said and done, their group size isn't any better than yours.

For now, I suggest that you just keep on doing what you feel comfortable with and have fun.

Those X shooters tend to take all of the fun out of shooting and turn it into a high stress contest. If you like high stress contests, go ahead and try their methods.
If you would rather enjoy yourself and your shooting, relax and have fun.

When your offhand shooting improves to the point that a hundredth of an ounce difference in ball weight, 1/10 of a grain difference in powder charge weight and a change of viscosity in your patch lube makes a visible difference in your group size, then, start doing what they are doing. :grin:

 

[AZbpBurner]

I shoot mainly for my own amusement and satisfaction. I use a short starter on all my rifles, and for one in particular, I use a mesquite wood mallet to get the ball seated. I use pre cut round patches and a tallow + beeswax lube. Dad moved to Florida, so there's no more Tucson grapefruit ranch - I now shoot at water balloons of about the same size as grapefruit. Some of the other shooters criticize mallet use for seating PRB's, but I'm busting the balloons at 100 yards and they're not.

I gave up cutting patches at the muzzle long ago, since I found no advantage in it; the precut round patches work just fine for one shot, one balloon.

Do whatever loading routine works for you. The goal is to hit your target.

 

[Wes/Tex]

You're probably dealing with shooters who have been doing this long enough that their ability to "hold" on target makes up for anything they lose in loading technique. Don't be intimidated, these guys are in their own world, don't let it ruin your fun. You might consider using either unlubed patches that you lube yourself or get linen or ticking and cut your own or at the muzzle. "Spit" lube is a fine method but it requires you to shoot in a fairly rapid cycle or it dries out and creates problems. More than anything, experiment a bit and never, never, never forget to have fun! :wink: :thumbsup:

 

[Leatherbark]

I recently quit using a mallet and large diameter balls with thick patching and went back to using an easy loading combination using T.O.W mink oil and pillow ticking. I still use the short starter, but I can place the ball on the patch and push it down with the long end of the starter real easy. I am only interested in hitting the black during competition or a deer when hunting. I shoot in NMLRA competitive type events with the guys and gals who have flintlocks that don't look like anything Daniel or Davy would have carried. They use bore size balls and Teflon patching and shoot some amazing scores (some of them). Not knocking them, shooting "X"s is their bag. I tried it but it wasn't for me. I still shoot with them but I get better satisfaction if I am not obsessing over a score.
If all your interested in is shooting X's then you might need an oversized ball and Teflon patch. But for me it is to shoot for my own fun and relaxation. I decided I ain't going to be a 50-5x shooter ever. But I do like being able to hit whatever my front sight subtends at any reasonable distance. If the sight covers the target I figure the balls should all land somewhere behind what the front sight subtends.

My Tip Curtis Virginia rifle with a Colerain 50 barrel will keep them all in the black at 100 yards offhand if I do my part with my pleasant starting load. I cant even see the X but I can see the black target and that's what I aim for.

With my .490 balls and .018 greased patch I don't even have to "Whack" the short starter any more with the palm of my hand which was taking its toll on my old coal miner joints.

This is supposed to be fun not work. Have fun. Watch everyone else work at it. Strive to hit the black every shot and you'll score better than average.

Bob

 

[nchawkeye]

Chris, I noticed the same thing when I started shooting competition back in the '70s...The funny thing was, when I asked those fellows about deer hunting loads, they didn't hunt, they were mainly target shooters...

What is a great target load isn't necessarily a great hunting load, you may want to work up two different loadings, depending upon your situation...

I don't care for hammering a ball down a barrel, I also use a thinner patch for any shots after #3 when not swabbing between shots...It's all part of learning your gun...

 

[mr.flintlock]

I see people at our matches using a mallet to hammer the ball and patch into the muzzle. I personally believe that the ball and patch combination only needs to be tight enough that the patch does not burn through so the patch can do it's job. I use a short starter that I bump with the heel of my hand and I can get clover leaf groups at 50 yards. I also believe that having a ball/patch combination so tight that it has to be hammered in could deform the soft lead ball and cause it not fly straight. Just my opinion.

 

[don hepler]

I admit that I have an "Apple wood" mallet, that I use to drive a very tight ball/patch combination down the barrel. I love to see those tight groups. I don't shoot competition anymore, but I used to win, using that combination. I load my first shot for hunting that way, then use thinner patches for loading in the field. I don't use, those tight combinations, on small calibers, due to the size of the ball starter and ram rod.
But, it's fun just knowing what the accuracy potential of a rifle is. My 50 cal. combination is a .022 patch and .495 ball.

 

[vulture]

I've mentioned this here before, I believe, but here goes my two cents worth. I started shooting muzzle loaders years ago with a local club and most all of them used the spit patch meathod, some used ribbons and cut at the muzzle but most of us simply used precut patches, cut ourselves, and then when we went to load for the next shot stuck a dry patch in our mouth, but the time we got the powder measured and loaded the patch was good a wet, then lay it across the muzzle and center the ball, some could just load from there using the ramrod, others needed a short starter to get it started. Most all of us used pillow ticking purchased by the yard at the local sewing outlet. It was fun and easy, didn't take a lot of prep work and easier to carry dry patches than prelubed, not as messy and easier to keep clean. We could shoot all day and never needed to clean the bore of our rifles, each wet patch did that for us and the loads weren't in the rifle long enough for the damp patch to effect the powder charge.

 

[Pete G]

A lot of those techniques are holdovers from the late 1800's target rifles using fitted bullets, paper patching and mechanical starters. Most folks that use the cut at muzzle method also usually have a secret lube that they swear by.
If you want to find out how much difference it really makes, try both methods (assuming that you have a patch and ball combination that fits your rifle)from a bench and sandbag rest. I suspect that you will find little difference in the end result.

Quite often the methods you describe are used because someone learned it from someone, who passed it along, etc. etc. and now it is just common knowledge; "Everybody knows that is the most accurate was to load a rifle."

If you really want to improve your scores, work on concentrating on that front sight and follow through on the shot. Once you have those two things down you can start worrying about the small, piddling and practically insignificant details, if that's that's what you like. Otherwise, just shoot as often as you can and enjoy the sport.

 

[jamesthomas]

Part of the problem could be your use of those Pre-cut, Pre-lubed patches. I 've seen some on the shelf that are so old the patch as dried out and changed colors. You really can't tell how old they are and are they holding up (not shredding into pieces) when you shoot them. Its always best to buy your own patching material and lube it yourself. In my .40 cal. I use a .395 Rb. and .015 patching ( the Red Striped Pillow ticking)., with Hoppe's #9 Plus. At 30 yards I can stack them within an inch of each other, this is off the BENCH though, ( I really need to start shooting offhand :slap: ).

 

[biliff]

You're seeing the pure target shooting routine vice the trail walk or hunting or recreational shooting routine.

The guys at my monthly bullseye shoots load as you describe but with Teflon for lube. Lots of wiping, cutting and hammering going on. They're serious paper punchers and some travel quite a bit to shoot at major matches.

I still beat them often enough (with my flintlock) to keep things interesting.

I'm sure their benched groups are smaller than mine, but shooting well offhand is a lot more than just group size.

I'm also usually sitting by the woodstove smoking my pipe for the last 20 minutes of a relay while they're still freezing their butts off on the line.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Offhand shooting is about technique. The bench is about the ammo and sights. Almost all ML'er contests are offhand shooting, with the exception of the chunk guns.

Case in point are my smallbore scores. I get the same scores (within 2-3 points) with el-cheapo HV ammo as I do with Tenex. Prone is another matter. I can not shoot 100's (ISSF 50 meter) with anything other than the best ammo

 

[cschibi]

You're seeing the pure target shooting routine vice the trail walk or hunting or recreational shooting routine.

The guys at my monthly bullseye shoots load as you describe but with Teflon for lube. Lots of wiping, cutting and hammering going on. They're serious paper punchers and some travel quite a bit to shoot at major matches.

I still beat them often enough (with my flintlock) to keep things interesting.

I'm sure their benched groups are smaller than mine, but shooting well offhand is a lot more than just group size.

I'm also usually sitting by the woodstove smoking my pipe for the last 20 minutes of a relay while they're still freezing their butts off on the line.

Bakeoven Bill. I would say I have to humbly agree with you as my bench shooting is considerably better than my offhand shooting..with the same patch loading technique. Thanks to all who have responded..here. From the posts and folks who provided advise here... it seems like it's really about practice, practice and more practice to improve the offhand shooting!

Thanks to all who provided their opinion and experiences!

Respectfully,

 

[StewartLeach]

Interesting discussion. For competition- which I know improves my performance in the field- I use the cut at the muzzle technique with saliva as lubricant. Material is either WallyMart ticking washed and dried on hot settings, or Bottomweights twill from JoAnn, same wash and dry. Two types of material as I shoot several rifles, depending on the type of match. I cut strips the width of our yardstick, about 1.75 inches, and tie the end to the bag strap. Once started with a a good thump on the ball they slide down smoothly. If saliva is running low, a few granules of powder or a few shreds of snoose tucked in the lip increases production.

Hunting is a different matter. Round patches are cut from the same material, and lubed with TOTW grease. Fortunately, point of impact shift is minimal in the 40, 50 and 58. Truth Time: big game- muleys and elk- are usually hunted with a true bullet, in a 54 cal Renegade. However, 50 cal round ball does fine on deer, and the one elk taken with the 58 round ball was down and dead before I could reload and walk the 50 yards.

Trigger time is the best way to improve your shooting, whether live fire or dry fire. Make your luck, and favor center.

White Fox

 

[rusty]

a .50 cal. round ball will take an elk,but you pretty much need to be with in 75 yards,and a stout load of powder I use 90gr of FFFg in my GPR and it worked out well..d

 

[irishtoo]

as stated, it all depends on you. doing it your way. i shoot for minute of deer heart. i shoot a .526 ball that i weigh, .009 muslin patch with ballisol lube cut at the muzzle. thumb started and slides down easy. i shoot for fun and hunting. irishtoo