Patent Breech Investarms Hawken failures to fire

[Bad Karma]

All of these comments are helpful.

I followed OldNo7's guide on deburring and cleaning the flash channel from Jan of this year. On top of that, I lightly deburred the front edges and interior of the powder drum with 0000 steel wool and cutting oil on a shaped bronze cleaning brush on the end of a long cleaning rod with a bore guide chucked into a power drill at low speed.

I then followed the instructions on tipping and tapping the barrel to help gravity when I put the powder charge in the barrel, and removing the nipple to see if there is powder in the channel. When I ran the experiment with the 3F/FFFG (black powder), I saw it, but not when I tried the 2F/FFG (T7). I don't have any 3F T7 on hand to verify the result with that powder.
I expect that making sure there were no obstructions in the powder drum and flash channel, and using the smaller kernels of 3F vs 2F will solve the problem. I'll know for sure when I get to the range after the rains clear.

3f T7 is the only substitute powder I use in side locks like yours. For all the stated reasons. It works just fine. Pyrodex P does too. I just don’t have any left.

 

[flntlokr]

I would suggest shooting off about 3 to five caps before loading your gun. It will dry up any oils or moisture in the flash hole and flash channel. Prior to shooting off the caps I would run a dry patch or 2 down the barrel to remove any oil or moisture in the barrel.

and store the gun muzzle down. It's surprising how much oil comes out of a 'lightly oiled for rust prevention' barrel.

 

[BS]

After cleaning, stand the rifle on it's nose letting the barrel drain.

 

[Mike in FL]

I was having fail to fire infrequently in a flintlock with a patent breech. Using 3F. I found that pouring the powder in slowly while tapping the barrel it settles to where it is meant to be.

 

[Okie Hog]

No need to pump water through the patent breech or pop caps. My method is easy: Clean the fire channel using a bristled pipe cleaner, After loading the powder, lean the rifle lock side down and smack he stock a couple times; this allows the powder to enter the flash channel.

In the past 20 years one TC rifle gave me chronic misfire/hangfire trouble. i had replaced a worn nipple with someones expensive vented nipple that had a tiny flash hole. Replaced that useless nipple with a TC nipple, no more trouble.

 

[ETipp]

I have an Investarms .50 cal. Hawken. I use a Tres Ampco #11 nipple which is only a .028 flash hole. I use Remington caps, CCI caps and RWS caps. I have never had a problem with hang fires or misfires. I use 2F Swiss black powder.
I have a buddy who shoots a TC New Englander. He is constantly getting hang fires and misfires. He uses Triple 7 powder.
I have been trying to convince him for years to shoot regular black powder but he won't listen. More than once he has not been able to fire shots at deer or his gun would not go boom at the end of a hunt when he wanted to unload his gun.

Yup, I had two hang fires in one shooting session with my New Englander when using 2F 777 and a CCI #11 cap. Never had that happen before or after with 3F black powder.

It simply needs a little more spark with 777 than what a standard nipple provides.

 

[ETipp]

I believe that slapping the stock opposite the lock would move powder out of the flash channel not into it.

Yep, tap on the lock side while the rifle is leaning on that same side.

 

[Steve Wagner]

I believe that slapping the stock opposite the lock would move powder out of the flash channel not into it.

I wouldn't call it slapping. More like knocking or rapping in quick succession to help gravity get the powder to trickle in underneath the nipple. These vibes could work from either side as long as the lock is gravity side down from the powder charge. If one likes bashing his knuckles or palm on the lock to get it done, he should, by all means, go for it that way. I prefer moving the powder into place from the opposite, smooth side and it works flawlessly for me. For the OP, make sure you do this before seating the ball or bullet, as compression of the charge will most likely prevent it from trickling anywhere. If some powder does manage to get under the nipple this way, you will probably have an air gap between that powder and the main charge which can lead to more inconsistencies and some nasty hangfires. If all the powder moves toward the flash channel/ nipple after seating, you will then have the air gap under the projectile and a serious risk of 'ringing' and damaging your barrel. SW

 

[Pork Chop]

I've tested it by loading, slapping the stock opposite the lock and then removing the nipple - every time there is powder in the flash channel. YMMV

 

[Chuck Tiller]

I believe that slapping the stock opposite the lock would move powder out of the flash channel not into it.

We teach to pat the stock a few times on the SAME side as the lock in our Scout class.

 

[ETipp]

About any rifle with a "patent type" breech can give headaches when substitute powders are used. Black powder is "touchy", ignites easily and should make a difference in your rifles performance. The "dog leg" fire channel in these rifles is just a poor solution to a nonexistent problem. Any percussion cap usually gives good account of itself if black is in the bore.

Very well said!

 

[ETipp]

I believe that slapping the stock opposite the lock would move powder out of the flash channel not into it.

We teach to pat the stock a few times on the SAME side as the lock in our Scout class.

Been leaning the ML on the lock side and then tapping the stock since I got into muzzleloading in 1981. It certainly works for this ole boy out of every ML I’ve owned since then.

I do not understand why anyone would want to tap on the opposite side of the lock. Makes no sense. The objective is to get the powder closer to the ignition source, not farther away. This could very well make a difference if there happens to be a little bit of crud in the flash channel.

FWIW, on several occasions I’ve forgotten to tap the stock on the side and I still had good ignition.

A clean rifle is a happy rifle.😁

 

[ETipp]

Use 3f triple 7 if you want reliable ignition with a sulfur free powder. Ive seen others here say that the 2f triple 7 gives them the same issue, regardless of breech type.

2F TTT definitely gave me problems during testing with my New Englander. I had several misfires or hang fires on the same day at the range. Switched back over to 3F black powder and had no more problems. End of testing with 2F TTT.

The only reason I was testing it was I had some left over from one of those new fandango ML’s I was working up a load for that belong to someone else. I still have that junk in my closet.

I would reckon that 3F TTT might be a bit better (if they even make such) but I never have had a problem with 3F black powder.

My advice to anyone that chooses to shoot TTT, or any other sub, is to install a different nipple that was specifically designed for such. Those nipples provide more spark. Subs do need a little more fire for best results. During a hunting application it simply is not worth not doing so.