Patent Breeches With Reduced Chambers

[smoothshooter]

Does Pedersoli manufacture any long guns WITHOUT patent breeches? I understand why they were developed long ago, but they seem to me to be more trouble than they are worth due to the need for another diameter of brushes, scrapers, and jags in the shooting bag and range box. ( bore size vs. chamber size ).

 

[nkbj]

That really seems to be especially the case with flinters don't it!

 

[Pete44ru]

FWIW, my Austin & Halleck flinters have a patent breech chamber, that's E-Z-Peazy to keep clean via pumping some MooseMilk (T/C #13 Bore Cleaner) through it during cleanup.

 

[jamieorr]

I have a Lyman, same issue. It takes me half again as long to clean as it would without the patent breech. I dare say there are sound engineering reasons (stronger breech? better burning?) but it is indeed a PITA.

In every other way, it was exactly want I wanted so I bought it anyway.

Jamie

 

[smoothshooter]

In my opinion, the Italians are manufacturers more than shooters. My guess that their experience is limited to very occasional shooting and cleaning sessions, if they shoot at all.

 

[galamb]

I only build with patent breeches, I "feel" they are safer than drilling a hole in the side of a barrel and then screwing in "something else that can go wrong", particularly in a thin walled barrel.

I assume that the mfg's use them for the same reason - the "end user" is "less likely" to have an accident (that's my take).

I consider the cleaning of them just part of the whole experience.

I do drill out the chambers to one standard caliber smaller than the bore (so 45 cal for a 50 cal barrel etc) and have never had to stop because the chamber bridged with gunk, so the extra cleaning is done at the end of the shoot.

 

[Vaino]

Patent breeches are certainly stronger than a drum in caplock rifles...but they're just an unnecessary complication in a flintlock. That's why patent breeches were never popular in flintlocks.....a flat faced breechplug and a TH that leads directly to the charge is simplicity at it's best. Use whatever you think is best, but my vote is for the simpler system....a "normal" flintlock".....Fred

 

[Tom Compton]

I've got 2 flinters w flat face breech and one w chamber. No problems w either. The chambered breech is hooked on a half stock so it gets cleaned in a bucket and washed thru.
TC

 

[varsity07840]

Does Pedersoli manufacture any long guns WITHOUT patent breeches? I understand why they were developed long ago, but they seem to me to be more trouble than they are worth due to the need for another diameter of brushes, scrapers, and jags in the shooting bag and range box. ( bore size vs. chamber size ).

A poorly made patent breech can cause a lot of headaches with ignition. Hard powder fouling around the face of the chamber(bridging) can prevent the full charge from filling it, thus causing hang fires. The mouth of the chamber should be champhered to prevent this condition.


Duane

 

[Walks with fire]

My Lyman Deerstalker has the patent breech and it's smaller than my TC's but still it works ok. I can use it at the range without swabbing it out and it works fine for the 20 shots or so I take when at the range.

When hunting I do clean it out as soon as possible with a patch on a small brush and a pipe cleaner thru the vent. I very seldom need a reload when deer hunting anyway. It's usually one and done and the gun gets field cleaned before the knife comes out. When I get it home it gets the full deal cleaning and put away before butchering starts. Good habits to get into.

 

[tlallijr]

I was given some muzzleloading stuff from a buddy and there was a jag that looked like it was for a patent breech, or at least that's what I thought it was. Here's a pic of it. Anybody know for sure ?

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[Grenadier1758]

The jags that came with the T/C "Hawken" had the two diameter sections to clean the patent breeches. The brass threads are one clue as the jag for my 50 cal had the two diameters and the brass threads.

 

[hanshi]

I much prefer a flat breech face in any gun, flint or percussion. A patent breech is a dubious solution to a nonexistent problem. Got to say, though, that I've owned several factory guns with patent breeches and never even once did I experience a problem shooting or cleaning them. This includes Pedersoli, Traditions and CVA. I kept only one rifle with a patent breech; and that was simply because it is a beautifully fitted and finished rifle. It is a Euroarms US M1841 Mississippi Rifle in .54 caliber. I guess I've owned that accurate rifle for around a dozen years. But every single rifle/gun I've had built has a flat breech.

 

[Walks with fire]

I like the flat breech better as well but only 1 of my rifles has it. I just use factory rifles and most all of them use the patent breech system. I never saw a hooked breech that was flat on a production rifle.

It's a little more cleaning but they work fine. A patch on the right sized brush has worked great for me.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I have multiple rifles with patent breeches, both .50 and .54 cal, and both cap and flint.

I load and fire all day, ignoring the fact that the demon patent breech lurks within the breech end of my barrels.

When I clean, I use the same hot soapy water routine, with plain water rinse, and WD-40 spray to remove residual moisture, that I've used for several decades. I do have a slotted .22 rod tip that I use with a large flannel patch to mop out the patent breech. Other than that, the patent breeches receive no other special treatment, and I've never seen any residual fouling after my cleanings.

I'm speculating, but there may be folks with a dose of patentbreechaphobia who are simply attributing more problems than actually exist.

 

[Rick Boylan]

:thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

Does Pedersoli manufacture any long guns WITHOUT patent breeches? I understand why they were developed long ago, but they seem to me to be more trouble than they are worth due to the need for another diameter of brushes, scrapers, and jags in the shooting bag and range box. ( bore size vs. chamber size ).

FWIW, here are some facts, not 3rd hand old wives tales:

I've used nothing but Patent Breech sidelocks for the past 20+ years now...years of a few T/C Hawken caplocks, then years of a few T/C Hawken Flintlocks, then years of a few custom built Flintlocks, all of which I had custom Patent Breeches made for their Rice barrels...even had the flat faced breechplug on a used .50cal Dickert replaced with a custom Patent Breech plug...I don't / won't own a sidelock without a Patent Breech.

They are completely trouble free, no special scraper, no special jag, (or vent pick) has ever been needed in 20+ years, don't own them...in essence the Patent Breech design of the current 50 years without the horizontal ante-chamber are 100% self cleaning due to the back blast out through the vent channel from every shot...no buildup occurs...and as a hunter I like the 100% reliability.

Cleaning after a 50 shot trouble free range session is simple...I just wrap a cleaning patch around a .32cal bore brush, slide it down into the reduced size powder chamber, rotate it a few times, etc.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Do your TVM rifles have patent breeches?

 

[roundball]

To Repeat:

"...then years of a few custom built Flintlocks, all of which I had custom Patent Breeches made for their Rice barrels..."

 

[coloradoclyde]

Thank you for replying Roundball, I didn't make the connection.