PC Knives vs. Modern Designs & Materials

[deforge1]

I have been building knives full time for going on 19 yrs and I have always had one simple rule for the shop. When I make a "copy" of an original or a "historically inspired" (NO fantasy stuff) knife, axe or hawk if I build it using the same methods and materials that was used on the original then I should be able to turn out a good working piece that is true to the time period. Folks seem to like the results or I wouldn't be in business still.

 

[Twice boom]

I like to see some of your work Mr. Miles.
I'm also a student-- recent -of period correct working implements. Much appreciated if you would.
Twice.

 

[deforge1]

Twice,

I sent you a PM.

Dennis

 

[Bob Riegl]

:bow: Above all Pichou I deeply respect your work and quite frankly if the PC Police don't like it they can go straight to a cliff and drop over.When you can equal or better the work I have seen turned out by him, then you can begin to criticize---until you have reached that pinnacle please avoid the urge to make a jackass of yourself here and go to another forum.As far as another knife maker I have great admiration and respect for is Dennis Miles. He is concerned about tradition and timing, in the interim he has made five knives for me and each one is better than the other and truly looks the age it is supposed to be representing. Wick Ellerbe is another extremely knowledgeable & talented individual whose words I deeply respect as well. I do not think that you can go wrong with either of them as a choice to critique, recommend or build an excellent knife for our purposes. I proudly wear and use Dennis' knives and will always give him the credit he deserves. :hatsoff:

 

:bow: Above all Pichou I deeply respect your work and quite frankly if the PC Police don't like it they can go straight to a cliff and drop over.When you can equal or better the work I have seen turned out by him, then you can begin to criticize---until you have reached that pinnacle please avoid the urge to make a jackass of yourself here and go to another forum.

Knives "turned out" by who? And, when did this become an argument? You appear to be defending someone who has not been attacked.

 

[Twice boom]

Thank you....
Twice.

 

[tg]

" You appear to be defending someone who has not been attacked.'

This happens a lot around here,maybe some folks just assume that which they don't understand as an attack, maybe it is the lack of facial expression/body language to go with the words we speak, this is always a tough one on the internet.

 

[omarick1948]

I didn't post this as a "WHO'S WHO" in Knifemakers or popularity contest! There's a bunch of good knife makers here, who use the forum and most are very helpful. Please read my post again!

Thanks everybody, :hatsoff:
Rick

Is it just me, or are there more modern designed knives and handle materials being excepted in the muzzleloading pastime and even the with PC re-enactors? I know that there are some makers who might say, "if it has a blade and a handle", that it is historically correct, but I also think that MOST here, understand my meaning. Recently, there was a little debating about Trap Spring Knives as being authentic PC and the debate will probably continue "Pro or Con", but a knife like that seems closer in design than knives with some exotic South American or rare African wood with other manmade materials etc.

I like just about ALL cutlery, but all the exotic woods and added "FooFraws" seem to be side tracking serious historic woods and designs of the 18th and 19th Centuries!

Am I right in my observations and concern or just very close minded to modern trends in muzzleloading?.... :hmm:


Rick

 

[deforge1]

Rick,

The reason allot of the "foo fa ra" gets added to "period knives" is because it sells. Bottom line, period, simple. I have pi**ed off more than a few "longhunters" over the years because I call them Fort Dandies.. Prettiest gear ya ever saw in a Fort and half of it, including unfortunatly, their knives wouldn't last a week in a true wilderness enviroment. A inlaid, shiny, exotic hafted long see-thru knife is a lot prettier than the average workhorse, so it sells better and more "follow the money" rather than the fact. My 2 cents and worth the penny it took to give... :rotf:

 

[Twice boom]

Can a well made PC pretty knife last as long as a PC and not so pretty of a knife.

I think we as craftsmen should be driven not by how pretty a knife we can make - I Personally see nothing wrong with a gifted craftsman exercising his God Given Talent-- if he who made the knife paid as much attention to making the best he could ,embalished or not and above all else what ever he makes aught to be PC.....IMO

 

I didn't post this as a "WHO'S WHO" in Knifemakers or popularity contest! There's a bunch of good knife makers here, who use the forum and most are very helpful.

You mean you weren't looking for, "I make knives", self promotions? :wink: Sorry, but it's so obvious.

 

[TexiKan]

I Personally see nothing wrong with a gifted craftsman exercising his God Given Talent-- if he who made the knife paid as much attention to making the best he could ,embalished or not and above all else what ever he makes aught to be PC.....IMO

I believe this is a valid point. Maybe the vast majority of knives are "plain" but one would think there were some nice looking ones, too. No different than the ultra fancy flintlock or powder horns.

TexiKan

 

[pichou]

 

[tg]

- I Personally see nothing wrong with a gifted craftsman exercising his God Given Talent-- if he who made the knife paid as much attention to making the best he could ,embalished or not and above all else what ever he makes aught to be PC.....IMO'

The same thing goes for guns they have their own "school" now many call them fantasy guns as they are absolute works of art but do not pass a very close PV/HC scrutiny and people spend thousands on them the Hose bros. are some of the more well known builders of these guns, they and other also make guns that are considered authentic, but i supposed the fancy artsy guns may sell better and demand a higher price I am not yet sure why thses guns demand the prices they get whether the buyers do not care about the PC/HC factor or just don't care, this phenomenom is present in many items that we used in our sport. Some would have a cow if someone suggested they put a large Siler and a curly maple stock on a Fusil de Chase but not bat an eye at the mention of installing a white lightning liner on the same gun... it is an interesting hoby with a lot of grey areas that are viewed very differently from person to person.

 

[Twice boom]

I have seen few guns by the House Brothers and few by Jack Huagh. Works of art they are to my untrained eye. The truth is ,Guys like the House bros and the jack Huaghs of the trade can design and make their own locks they can pretty much make what fancies the customer ..And I don't suspect it was much different back then in the cutlery business. The trouble is in the proving...
Twice.

 

[omarick1948]

So what you guys are saying, that if you have a reputable reputation at turning out works of art and get alot of money for your art piece's. It's OK to add all types of modern embelishments and manmade materials or about anything to PC themed or reproduction cutlery? Or are we still talking about PC cutlery vs. modern influences?.......

 

[Twice boom]

I don't think anyone said that.What I said is those guys have the capability to build just about anything they want.. I know for a fact one of the three I mentioned was offered 25 grand ,that's right that's $25,000,00 to build a high roller a wheel lock ,turned it down.. I only mention this just to make the point that they are that good.. And because they are they can command big dollars for their work..Will their work be PC ,in every way if the customer wants it..On the other hand if their piece is not PC ,they dodn't represent it as such.That's the difference,they know what is and what is not...

Twice.

 

[DBox]

Here's my 2 cents worth. Who makes the rules as to what is PC? Does it have top look like somethimg in a museum? I mean, I'm sure that there were as many differant styles of knives and hawks and rifles as there were smiths turning them out. I've been beating out iron on an anvil for over thirty five years and have always noticed that differant areas and differant times turn out differant styles in all kinds of tools, furniture, leather works, just about everything. I'm not critisizing. I'm just curious.

 

[Twice boom]

The museum and what is printed in books is all we have to go by..What can not be documented in my opinion is only PC in ones imagination. At least that's the way I see it..
Twice.

 

[tg]

For those into reliving history and having gear that is authentic to a particular time there is a standard of sorts on all items based on what we know and can support by the way of surviving examples and or written records often there is little in the way of supporting evidence so speculation based on whatever we have is what is usually done and care is used to not end up with something that any part of can be proven to have originated later than the period being done, but at the other end of the spectrum one cannot take a TC Hawken flintlock and carry a 1850 Bowie, and a clothing outfit from the civil war, and a bunch of stuff he just "likes" and claim to be "doing" a F&I persona and challenge others to prove his stuff is wrong.