Pedersoli 1816 Flintlocks

[hthomso]

Thinking of getting a Pedersoli flint musket. I hear they are of high quality. But I also keep hearing that they are notoriously hard on flints, springs are too heavy, and can sometimes have unreliable ignition. Seems you might get lucky and get one that's a winner, but these reports about lock problems are preventing me from purchasing one. Since they are not the cheapest arms available, I would hate to get one that is not a shooter and do not want to spend time/money tuning or replacing the lock. I would like to hear comments about Ped flintlock musket reliability from the membership. Thanks.

 

[No Deer]

Can't comment on their musket, however I have owned their Mortimer flintlock shotgun and have their .45 cal Kentucky flintlock pistol and both have worked flawlessly. I have never read of any problems with their locks, actually quite the opposite. Their guns, as far as I have ever heard or read, have a very good reputation for quality and reliability. Just my limited experience with them, good luck in your search.

 

[BrownBear]

Dunno about their muskets, but none of my three Pedersoli flinters have lock issues. Perhaps my performance standards are too low, but I doubt it. I have flinters from a number of other sources, and the Pedersoli's are in the ballpark with them. The only flinter I've had trouble with is a Traditions, and it's so far behind the pack I wouldn't recommend one as an alternative to the extra price for a Pedersoli. Different league altogether.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Are you asking about a smooth bored musket such as a Brown Bess or Charleville? Or, are you asking about a flintlock rifle?

Some of the military styled muskets have had the lock issues due to the production according to the pattern of the military firearm. The rifles have generally good reputations.

We really need a specific model that you are looking for to comment on function and reliability.

Be very much aware that in a flintlock, great function is all about the lock. Looking for the cheapest flintlock will often end up with a gun that is unreliable, that bashes flints and just doesn't last.

So look through Pedersoli's extensive catalog and ask about specific models.

 

[BrownBear]

...musket such as a Brown Bess....

In fact one of my Pedersoli's is a smooth Bess rather than a rifle. The only time that big honkin ole lock has failed to fire has been my fault- lack of care on wet days. No dirt on its performance with normal use. In fact I've quit using finer granulations in that big pan. I just use the same 1f Goex I'm using in my main charge. No failures and no lags. Just workmanlike performance.

 

[hthomso]

Considering a U.S. Model 1816.

 

[hanshi]

I'm another who can't comment on Pedersoli muskets. I did own a flint Super Cub .50 for years and killed a lot of deer with it. The rifle handled really nice and was very accurate. My only complaint WAS the flint lock. It was so unreliable as to approach being useless. I did have a percussion lock that replaced the flint for part of the time. Still, I did manage to kill two deer with the flint lock installed; but killed scads of others with the cap lock in place. I figure I may have just got a lemon lock.

 

[nwtradegun]

if you are talking about the nwtradegun with the lott lock, it is lousy. to many listed reviews with new gun problems. I had a used trade msket based on an bess cut down. it was 15 years old and never gave me problems.

 

[Flintlock_bob]

Don't know about the musket but a friend has a .32 Kentucky and the lock misfires fairly often.

 

[stubshaft]

Probably had the same lock that my .45 Silver Star had on it. Intermittent sparker too.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I'd say they are "very good" quality, not "excellent". Performance wise, I've seen odd problems from time to time in the Pedersoli Bess and Indian Trade Gun, but nothing as a general rule.

Too hard springs? I wonder. Charlevilles are notorious for having hard main springs. I've taken a few of both the Bess and the Charleville and polished the tip of the frizzen cam, and polished the top of the frizzen spring, and seen that do wonders. I've seen a few lock screws that went too deep, and a few strokes of a file corrected that issue. Once in a great while the frizzen isn't properly hardened, but a new musket has a warranty, so you send the part back.

Is it worth $1200 - $1400.... I'd say no (imho)..., but you can buy kits for a lot less.

IF properly maintained, the Bess or the Charleville will give you decades of hard service...reenactors put their muskets through a lot, so if you're not doing battle reenactments, it should last a good long time

LD

 

[jbwilliams3]

I've had locks from L&R, Davis, and Chambers as well as owned a Pedersoli Frontier and one other Italian made lock.

I'd say the pedersoli lock on the frontier was right up there with Davis, which is pretty good. Hard on flints a bit and a strong mainspring, but a very reliable lock.

 

[Artificer]

Considering a U.S. Model 1816.

I seem to remember there are at least a couple folks on the forum who have these muskets, but they may miss this thread because it isn't mentioned with that Model Musket in the title of the thread. Hopefully, they will notice it anyway and comment.

I bought a Pedersoli Brown Bess Carbine around 1974 and shot it a lot in live fire and some reenacting. Never had a problem with it.

We purchased Pedersoli "Charleville" Musket KITS a couple three years later and ordered them without the lock engraving. That way we could assemble them as close as possible to U.S. Pre War of 1812 muskets and use them in reenacting that period. None of those locks had any problems, either.

I purchased my "Full Length" SLP Pedersoli Bess in the very early 2,000's. The only issue I had with it was the fit of the Top of the Priming Pan to the bottom of the frizzen. Though it took some time to carefully refit the parts, it was not a huge thing to do. It operated without any other problems, though.

Though I have worked on a few REAL US M1816 to M1840 Flint Muskets, I haven't worked on any of the Pedersoli repro M1816 Muskets.

Gus

 

[smoothshooter]

Am I the only one who thinks it's odd that the OP was asking about muskets and and musket locks, and 90% of the responses have nothing to do with muskets or musket locks???

It's like someone asking which pickup they should buy, and people responding that they've never had a pickup, but their Ford Taurus/Chevy Blazer/Honda Civic has always been reliable ( or not reliable ).

There is a world of difference between the geometry and size of musket locks, and pistol and rifle locks.
Just because a manufacturer makes good or bad rifle locks it is not a given that their musket lock design and quality would be the same.
Musket locks are just plain massive, with their tall hammers and frizzens, and the sparks have to travel a bit further to reach the pan. The larger size can be an asset or liability,
My experience has been that good quality musket locks tend to fire a little more slowly, but more reliably than all but the very best smaller/standard sized locks.
YMMV

 

[Artificer]

OK, Tex,

Now that the name of the thread has been changed, hopefully the Forum owners of Pedersoli M 1816 Muskets will chime in.

I am not nearly as familiar with the changes in French Model Muskets as I am with British Pattern Muskets. So as a way to remind myself, I have often used the following link: http://jaegerkorps.org/NRA/The Revolutionary Charleville.htm

Since we had used Pedersoli "Charleville" Musket Kits back in the late 70's and did not have the Lock problems you mentioned, it seemed unusual to me that there would be problems with their U.S. M1816 Muskets. Then it finally dawned on me that the older Pedersoli "Charleville" Kits and Muskets were copies of the French M1763/1766 Muskets with the earlier model locks, as shown in Pedersoli's On Line Catalog in the following link. Please notice the lock has a flat **** and a level “V” shaped priming pan.
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/s...-charleville-1763-leger-1766-charleville.html

You may be interested to know that when we came out with the original M 1795 Springfield Muskets, we copied this same earlier Model 1763/67 French Musket, even though the French had updated their locks for the M 1777 Muskets. It has been said that Springfield chose the earlier Model 1763/1767 Muskets to copy, because they had more of those Muskets and Spare Parts in stock for them, when they settled on the M 1795 design.

An original US Model 1795 is shown in the link below to illustrate this point. BTW, as I remember, the U.S. Model 1808 and Model 1812 Muskets kept this same style of lock. http://www.nramuseum.com/guns/the-...field-model-1795-flintlock-musket-type-i.aspx

In much more recent years, Pedersoli came out with their Repro “1777 Revolutionaire” (that was a copy of the French Model 1777 Musket) and their Repro “1816 Harpers Ferry” Muskets. These Repro’s shared the French Model 1777 lock upgrades of the Rounded Cocks and the Angled Brass/Bronze Priming Pans. https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/s...1777-revolutionnaire-1777-revolutionaire.html
and https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_56/rifles-1816-harpers-ferry.html

So this rather “long winded” information explains why the much earlier Repro “Charleville” Muskets that many of us Old F@rts remember as being so serviceable, did not use the same Lock as the more modern Pedersoli repro of the U.S. Model 1816.

I have handled a couple of Original U.S. Model 1795’s and one or two of the Model 1808 and 1812 Muskets over the years; but they are so rare, I have not fired one nor even seen one fired. The U.S. International Muzzle Loading Team in the mid/late 1990’s recommended Team Members buy “M1816 Models” for the Original Smoothbore Musket Matches. What they meant by that was M1816 through M1840 Original Flintlock Muskets. It was not only because though these Original Muskets were not as expensive, but also because the improved design locks made them so much more reliable and “Sure Fire,” than earlier Muskets.

OK, considering all this, I am even more intrigued by any Lock Problems people are supposed to have with the Repro Pedersoli M1777 and M1816 Muskets, because it seems they share the same Repro Lock. I suspect the problems reported come more from Re-enactors and with the Repro M1777 Muskets, but am not sure about that. Maybe Loyalist Dave and other Forum Members who have experience with these Model Muskets can give us more information?

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

Another point to consider. The Pedersoli 1816 Harpoer's Ferry Musket is a smoothbore. While that tidbit of information isn't really relevant to the reliability of the lock, it may explain why folks with 1816 muskets haven't replied if they don't follow the rifle topics. The underlined link will take you to the Pedersoli web site for details of the 1816 Harper's Ferry Musket.

 

[curator]

I have a Pedersoli 1816 Harpers Ferry musket. I also maintained another half-dozen of these that were part of the Museum where I worked's reenactor arsenal. They are well made, rugged and reliable. I much preferred the 1816 over our Brown Besses because the barrels are easily removed for cleaning. Mine has been fired thousands of times with both ball and blank charges, I cast .662 round balls to load in both paper cartridges and patched with .016 pillow ticking. I have even shot clay pigeons with one ounce of #7 shot using 14 gauge cardboard wads. I bought mine 20 + years ago when it was on sale at Dixie Gunworks. It is one of my favorite muzzle loading guns!

 

[Artificer]

May I ask what time period your Museum did?

The reason I ask is because I was a frequent Non Paid Volunteer at Historic Fort Wayne in Fort Wayne, IN from 1976 - 1980. Since we did "The Summer of 1816" there, the Old Navy Arms Charlevilles were as close as we could get to the correct U.S. Model 1795 -1812 Muskets, since the then "new" M 1816 Muskets had not arrived yet.

Gus

 

[curator]

Gus,

The Museum specialized in American Florida history from 1821. We organized several Seminole War reenactments, and the occasional ACW event. At one point we have a "crew" of reenactors who would participate in Seminole War events around the State. Each year we would put on an event called "Old Florida Festival" that featured living history camps from various periods of Florida history. Festival goers could walk through the camps and visit with the reenactors.

 

[Artificer]

Very interesting. Thank you.

Gus