Pedersoli Bess Touch Hole Size

[SgtErv]

Over the weekend spent squirrel hunting, I had a few unfortunate misfires. Those critters don’t stuck around for flashes in the pan.

When we got back to camp, I tried shooting it off. It was normally taking me three tries to shoot it.

I had:
80gr 2F with overpowder card, shot, overshot card
3F priming
Vent picked to the powder (felt it crunching)
Pan and side of barrel was relatively clean, wiped off at least.

I’ve run into this problem with blanks too, but attributed it to the 2F I was using to prime and the tons of fouling that was accumulating.

I took a look at the 1/16” or so touch hole and think it’s the culprit. This Musket isn’t like the white lightning holes where it’s coned, it’s just straight to the charge.

Any ideas on how to mitigate this? I tried banking the powder on the outside of the pan and everything else. I’m thinking taking it to a machinist and drilling it out might be the best solution?

Thanks for the input. Any time I run into a problem, I figure lots of you have, too, and I appreciate your sharing your knowledge and experiences

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
For a Brown Bess you can easily drill a hole 3/32" diameter or even 1/8". That is how large the originals were. First, try 5/64" and if that does not prevent flashes in the pan or hang fires, go to 3/32".

dave

 

[Britsmoothy]

My old Pedersoli Bess has a hole that is clearly bigger than 1/16" but I would bet is less than 1/8".

Not measured it as it goes bang every time.

B.

 

[Feltwad]

Hi,
For a Brown Bess you can easily drill a hole 3/32" diameter or even 1/8". That is how large the originals were. First, try 5/64" and if that does not prevent flashes in the pan or hang fires, go to 3/32".

dave

I have restored several original Brown Bess and large bore fowlers including flintlock punt gun. Most of these original had a large touch holes ,I have found that if the touch hole was not plugged while loading most of the powder charge was blown out through the large hole .These large touch holes would have enlarged through wear but I personally believe that they were made that way so when loading the frizzen was closed so the powder filled the pan thus reducing priming .
Feltwad

 

[mhb]

I could not find a good reference on the standard touchhole diameter for new, original Brown Bess muskets, though I have read that that diameter was often (intentionally) enlarged in service to procure more certain ignition or permit priming by leakage of the powder through the touchhole into the pan in the act of loading, making it unnecessary to prime as a separate action. My new Pedersoli Short Land Pattern has a touchhole which measures .085", while my original India Pattern, which is undoubtedly worn to some extent, measures .110": both diameters determined with precision pin gauges. Both work perfectly. If your Pedersoli has a touchhole which is significantly smaller than mine, it would do no harm to enlarge it to .085, though I would not go larger until I was positive it was necessary.

mhb - MIke

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
According to Kit Ravenshear and recorded in his little book on barrel work, typical musket vent holes were 0.1-0.11" or drill sizes 38-35.

dave

 

[lbothell]

Every gun I hunt with doesn’t have a touch hole liner so Iv spent some time trying to learn faster ignition. I got it now that it’s just as fast as my buddy’s with a liner. Here’s what I did:

Remeed the hole not to a bigger size but just to clean out any burs and what not.

Next I took a bit one to two sizes bigger then the touchhole and just made a slight cone effect around the touch hole. It doesn’t have to be deep just needs to be coned.

Then I polished the entire area around the touch hole by using different grits of sandpaper. This helps with cleaning and seems to just be better. But your Bess is probably already polished, my smoothie wasn’t it had been browned.

Now when I load the pan I used to poke powder in with my pick but that didn’t always create fast ignition. So what i do now is fill up the pan, hold the gun at and angle and tap some grains inside the touch hole. This way it has air around it and isn’t packed. I also use 2F in the pan and it’s just as fast as 3. Iv never used 4f.

Hope this helps! I know it did for me.

 

[SgtErv]

Yes, that helps. I am going to have the barrel off for a refinishing if the wood this winter. I’d like to find someone with a drill press for this operation. I have steady hands, but drilling straight holes is not my strong suit, even if I was just adding what I believed you described as a sort of bevel.

Appreciate the insights into originals. I have noted that originals commonly have fairly large touch holes, either rifle, smoothbore, or Musket.

My militia captain’s early Pedersoli has a pretty big touch hole too.

Thanks all. It was frustrating to misfire on big squirrels

Dave - Yes, the hangfires were really bad, too.

 

[Britsmoothy]

My Pedersoli faux trade gun was a bad igniter and they do come with a liner! I opened that up and now have reliable ignition.

Yours could have a bad bur inside!.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I could not find a good reference on the standard touchhole diameter for new, original Brown Bess muskets, though I have read that that diameter was often (intentionally) enlarged in service to procure more certain ignition or permit priming by leakage of the powder through the touchhole into the pan in the act of loading, making it unnecessary to prime as a separate action.

The problem with this Myth is that it ignores three facts..., first the Bess was made as a military weapon, so the military method of loading was expected by the builders. Second, since before the F&I the British military method of loading their muskets was to Prime First, shut the pan, and then to load the main charge into the musket. Thus the pan was already filled to capacity when the main charge was loaded, so no need to have powder leaking through to somehow remove a loading step..., a step that was drilled into the soldiers on a constant, reoccurring basis. Third, the soldier would need to shut the pan if the musket was expected to self-prime from the main charge, otherwise the prime would spill out because the musket is loaded with the main charge and the ball while it is inverted..., with the barrel and pan facing the ground. Not to mention the soldier would still need to check to ensure the pan self-primed by opening and inspecting the pan..., so would not actually save a step in the loading procedure.

It's more likely that the builders simply used a larger touch-hole to ensure reliable ignition, knowing that not all powder procured by the army and made into cartridges was necessarily the best, and not necessarily the driest or undamaged as well.

LD

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
This is a very simple operation. You don't have to bevel the hole but certainly try that if you want. Just take a hand drill and a 5/64" drill bit, and drill the hole using the existing hole as a guide. No need for a drill press. I just did this on several muskets. In the time needed for setting up on a drill press, I would have 10 muskets drilled out. Start with 5/64", if that does not do the job try 3/32". I am confident that one of those sizes will solve any problems you have with misfires and hangfires.

dave

 

[Wes/Tex]

The problem with this Myth is that it ignores three facts..., first the Bess was made as a military weapon, so the military method of loading was expected by the builders. Second, since before the F&I the British military method of loading their muskets was to Prime First, shut the pan, and then to load the main charge into the musket. Thus the pan was already filled to capacity when the main charge was loaded, so no need to have powder leaking through to somehow remove a loading step..., a step that was drilled into the soldiers on a constant, reoccurring basis. Third, the soldier would need to shut the pan if the musket was expected to self-prime from the main charge, otherwise the prime would spill out because the musket is loaded with the main charge and the ball while it is inverted..., with the barrel and pan facing the ground. Not to mention the soldier would still need to check to ensure the pan self-primed by opening and inspecting the pan..., so would not actually save a step in the loading procedure.
LD

I have never found any reference to beveled touch holes in British muskets. Only Frederick's Prussians did this as well as straight dowel type ramrods to save time in the loading time. A touch hole that self primed and a ramrod that didn't have to be turned to use would save a bit of time certainly. Their rigid discipline probably did as much as tweeks to the musket.

The upper illustration is the Prussian musket of the mid 1700's. The coned touch hole can't be seen here but the untapered ramrod and two upper pipes with their funnel shape to speed reinserting the rod were revolutionary for their day. The pipe style was later copied by the British in late models of Land Pattern muskets.
http://chestofbooks.com/reference/...usket-and-Bayonet-with-wooden-ramrod-2-an.jpg

 

[SgtErv]

Sounds doable, Dave. I’ll have to get a really good drill bit for this. I’d hate to break one in there. Reckon I’ll have to go really slow too

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Choose the right drill size and then put a drop of oil on it, stick it in the hole and drill. Don't force anything, just let the hole guide the drill. You don't have to go particularly slow.

dave

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Mr Person, is as usual, quite right. I today actually use a "cutting oil" when doing even the holes for the barrel pins on a barrel.

I’d hate to break one in there

Been there, done that, IT SUCKS, and explains why I use the cutting oil. :redface:

LD

 

[SgtErv]

Thus why I started a topic about this haha. I’m a big fan of gathering information before starting some unfamiliar task. It’s likley familiar to someone else

Thanks gents

 

[Rifleman1776]

Mr Person, is as usual, quite right. I today actually use a "cutting oil" when doing even the holes for the barrel pins on a barrel.

I’d hate to break one in there

Been there, done that, IT SUCKS, and explains why I use the cutting oil. :redface:

LD

Few times I have done this, I took extra time and secured the barrel on my drill press. Drilling a hole into a hole can be problematic, mainly catching. With a dp you can feed slowly and avoid those problems. Worth the extra 5 or 10 minutes set-up.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Mr Person, is as usual, quite right. I today actually use a "cutting oil" when doing even the holes for the barrel pins on a barrel.

I’d hate to break one in there

Been there, done that, IT SUCKS, and explains why I use the cutting oil. :redface:

LD

Few times I have done this, I took extra time and secured the barrel on my drill press. Drilling a hole into a hole can be problematic, mainly catching. With a dp you can feed slowly and avoid those problems. Worth the extra 5 or 10 minutes set-up.

Ain't always so.
Many drill presses have play in the vertical plane which can still allow a bit to grab.

B.

 

[mhb]

Actually, no machinery or power tools at all are required for enlarging a touchhole: I simply chuck the desired drill in a separate Jacobs chuck (unattached to anything), and, using the chuck as a convenient handle or knob, ream out the hole by hand. You can work slowly and carefully, there is less likelihood of slippage, breakage or damage to anything, and a sharp HS drill will accomplish the job in a couple of minutes without much effort.

mhb - MIke

 

[SgtErv]

Any recommendation on a particular brand of bit?