Pedersoli Harper's Ferry

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To those who are speed reading thru these posts, wwfeatherston's load is for his .45-70, not a Harpers Ferry pistol.

The Harpers Ferry pistol would use a 35-40 grain 3Fg powder charge under a round ball.
 
Yes- I'm using 40 gr of fffg and a round ball.

that other load in the pistol would be a bit too- exciting!
 
congrats on your new shooter, I"ve been thinking of getting one of those pistols also, they look like they're fun to shoot. But I bet, I would have a hard time shooting a rabbit with it. Is it hard to take small game with a flint lock pistol?
Shooting rabbits on the run with #6 shot out of my Brown Bess is tuff enough for me.

p.s. sorry to here about your restricted freedom.
I have a shooting partner on my Trap shooting team who left New South Whales for the US, so that he could have gun freedom. He says it makes him feel proud when he rides his horse with his loaded 94 winchester in the scabbard in our local parades. :)
 
Took the big beastie out again today.

I'm leaning not to flinch when the pan flashes now and are consistently hitting 16" steel plates at 8-10 meters.25 meter seems to be pushing it a bit, though.

I have since found that this pistol is not a great model for spark, but I'm getting 50/50 first time ignition following a few of the tips shared here.

Lots of smoke, lots of noise, lots of fun!
 
Bad sparking is the result of poor designed locks, frizzen springs that keep the frizzen from opening quickly, mainsprings that are too hard, and smash the flints, and poor loading and maintenance procedures.

The flint most strike the face of the frizzen at a 60 degree angle, if you are going to get good sparks, AND have the natural fracture lines of the silica molecules help break off a very tiny portion of the edge, to give you a new, sharp, clean edge for the next shot. How you get that 60 degree angle is not as important as getting it.

Use a protractor, with the baseline along the bottom of the flint/top of the bottom jaw of the cock, and the centerpoint of the protractor located at the point of impact( POI) of the edge of your flint to the frizzen.

You want the flint to strike the frizzen between 60% and 66% of the height UP from the bottom of the frizzen, as it is closed over the pan. You want a flint in the cock short enough to NOT touch the frizzen when the hammer is at half-cock, and you also want it to NOT strike the bottom of the flashpan when fully lowered. Also, check to make sure the flint as set into the jaws, will NOT scrape or strike the side of the barrel during the fall.

There are 3 springs to any flintlock, and Two of them affect how much tension there is on the frizzen and your flint. That determines how much of the flint is destroyed when the hammer falls, and how many strikes you get. The ONLY JOB OF THAT FRIZZEN SPRING IS TO KEEP THE FRIZZEN CLOSED WITH THE BARREL IS POINTED TO THE GROUND. It is Not intended to put resistence on the flint to keep the frizzen from opening while the edge of your flint is destroyed( bashed). Frizzen springs are also called " Feather springs" because the tension on them is so small. Most frizzens weigh less than 8 oz, even on a large Brown Bess style lock. A Pistol lock is so small that the frizzen weighs in the 4 oz range. The tension of the frizzen spring should be no more than 1 lb., AND the frizzen spring should allow the frizzen to snap or pop open as soon as it is hit. The little foot that rubs against the spring is called the " cam" or "heel". That cam should be polished mirror smooth, as should be the surface of that spring arm where it makes contact. The pivot pin/screw in the lock that holds the frizzen in the lock should be well lubricated so that the frizzen moves freely. Lube the contact points on the spring and the cam. I usually find that cam has burrs, or casting lines, and is rough as a corncob! stone those off, and polish. I also find on some frizzens, that the cams have a very wide bearing surface that sits on the spring. I grind or file the bearing surface so that its no more than 1/32" from front to back, as you look down the barrel. This compares to a woman's high heel, and that of a man's much larger heel. In this case, we WANT the cam to move out of the way quickly after it hits. The metaphor to a woman's heel would be, "we want the woman to slip on the ice!"

Many springs "climb" after the cam contacts the spring, making it necessary to compress the spring further to get the frizzen open. This is a poor design problem. The fix is not easy, if you have to contemplate softening the spring, then reshaping the arm, and then rehardening and retempering the spring.

However, I found a better way to change those darn spring. They are usually relatively thick at the point where the cam contact the spring. I remove the spring after marking the exact location where the cam rests on the spring when the frizzen is close, and grind/sand a small, shallow dish, or " pothole" in the spring just to the rear of where that cam sits with the frizzen closed. With the alterations I describe above to limit the amount of contact between the cam and the spring, this Pothole allows the cam to swing out over open air, which in turn allows the frizzen to immediately respond to the pressure of the flint to "POP" open, before the spring arm can rise sufficiently to stop that movement. The dish is less than 1/4" the thickness of the spring. The filing, grinding,sanding of the spring is down at slow speed, to keep the heat down, and is always done with the length of the spring, NEVER across the width of the spring. I polish that "dish" to a high gloss finish, too, using emery cloth.

Even using a heavy mainspring, this modification of the cam, and frizzen spring will save flint life. But, the angle of impact has to be there, also. Again, I want the tension on the frizzen spring to be about 1 lb. It will often begin at over 5 lbs. on these guns.

The mainspring tension should only be 10 lbs. They often are more than 30 lbs. The bottom arm of the mainspring is the working arm, so its where we do some reduction, using grinders, sanding discs, or files. I hold the spring in my bare fingers so I know if the piece is getting to hot as I grind down the side of the arm.

I begin by drawing a line from about 1/2 inch down from the bottom of the "V", to the outside edge of the hook at the end of the arm. The hook is that curved piece that actually rides on the horn of the tumbler. If the lock in your gun has a stirrup and pin arrangement, I just pick a spot about 1/2 to 1/3 the width of the spring, so that I can thin the width of the spring arm to reduce its strength. I draw a line between the two point. The then begin removing metal on the outside of the line. Periodically, you test the spring to see how much reduction in tension has been achieved.

I describe this process in an article that has been republished here under " articles," up in the member resources section of the Index page to the forum. The Article is titled, Shooting and Tuning flintlocks, but is index as " shooting flintlocks, or something short like that. Basically, I use a trigger pull gauge to measure the tension on the frizzen; I use a common bathroom scale to measure the tension of the mainspring. I wrote the article so that all owners of flintlocks can TUNE the locks on their own guns.

You want to smooth out the face of that frizzen. With the cock angled properly, the flint will scrape steel bits off the frizzen and not gouge them out, leaving ruts. It the ruts that destroy more and more flint edges, and make it impossible to get hot sparks, much less have the flint throw them down into the pan. Get rid of the RUTS, and Chatter marks.

Chatter marks are caused when your chosen flint wrap allows the flint to BOUNCE, or rebound off the frizzen when the flint edge first strikes the frizzen. The problem is exacerbated if the angle of impact is too square( between 90 degree and 60 degrees) or if that feather spring prevents the frizzen from popping open. In time, the frizzen begins looking like a washboard!

Tuned, and with the flint striking at the correct angle, you should see only long scrape marks on the face of the frizzen, and can forget about polishing and smoothing the frizzen ever again.

I give tips on how to prime the pan, use a vent pick to open a hole in the main charge, through the vent, and how to choose your powder granule size, and how to load the powder into the barrel to speed ignition of the main charge.

The article in Muzzleblasts about lock speed between flintlocks and percussion is limited by the testing equipment, to test the time from when the hammer begins to fall, to the time the ball leaves the muzzle. Unlike a percussion cap, which forces fire into the powder charge, and ignites most of the powder quickly, at very high temperatures, a flintlock is more like a cannon fuse. By leaving a hole in the powder so that the heat from your burning priming powder is allowed to ignite many granules of powder all at once, rather than one or two at the vent opening, you increase the speed at which the main powder charge in any flintlock ignites, heat rises, pressure rises, and the inertia of your projectile is overcome so that it begins moving down the barrel. I find that unless you are shooting a very heavy RB, the inertia of smaller caliber guns is too little to reach proper chamber pressures to insure complete burning of the powder. So, I always recommend that an Over Powder Wad ( OP Wad) be used between the powder and your PRB. This slows the movement of the ball in the barrel just long enough to raise the chamber pressure and temperature to produce more gas, and launch the ball at a faster velocity.

The fallacy in comparing percussion pistols to flintlocks is the belief that because they shoot the same diameter balls, and the same patch thickness, and use the same powder, that they should fire the same. These are two different ignition systems- one very open, and the other semi-closed. If you understand this, and load the gun accordingly, you can achieve extraordinary fast ignition with a flintlock. I believe a fairer test for ignition would be from the time the hammer begins to move to the time the prime( cap or powder) ignites. I know that the priming powder, in a tuned lock, will fire faster than the percussion caps. And, if the barrel is loaded properly, the difference in times that the ball leaves the flintlock barrel will be on par with that fired in the percussion barrel.
I have had several BP shooters come down the range to ask me if I am shooting a Percussion gun, rather than my usual flintlock. When they see I am shooting a flintlock, they want to know how I get the gun to fire so fast. They are used to hearing un-tuned locks that go: " Klatchf-f-f-ftBOOM", and are not expecting to hear my gun go "kBOOM" when I fire a round. I will concede that even I don't hear any separate sound of the hammer hitting the percussion cap and nipple when I fire my percussion gun. If everything is working correctly( I tune my percussion locks, too) I hear only a "BOOM".

Don't accept what the manufacturer sent you, and think its working as it should. You can tune that lock to perform so much better you will find yourself crying at the range. Let me know if I can help you with any questions, or help walk you through the process. :thumbsup:
 
Wow!

That is a reply that should be preserved in an FAQ somewhere!

I have noticed a real improvement in ignition time just by using the flash hole pick.

Since I pulled the lock apart and gave it a thorough cleaning and polished up a few surfaces, the trigger pull is now way better.

This pistol was second-hand and had been used as a stage prop- I don't think it had ever had a ball through it- nor had it had a lot of proper care.

I brought it as much as to have something to tinker with as to shoot and it only cost me a fraction the price of a new pistol.

There are very few black powder shooter where I live and far less that actually know much more then I do- which isn't that much!

But thanks to the people here, I have my percussion guns going bang almost every time and I will get there with the flintlock!
 
In a way it has. See my article under " Articles, Charts, and Links" in the "Member Resources" Section at the top of the Index page to this forum. Its mis-named( for reasons of space), " Shooting the Flintlock", but I include detailed information about tuning the locks, too.

Every time I convince another shooter to try picking his main charge, and doing the other little things I suggest in loading the main powder charge, and priming the pan, and his ignition time is so fast that he turns to me with a huge smile on his face, I feel like a proud new Poppa!

Usually, within a few months, I again hear back from him about how many people have asked him what he did to get that flintlock to fire so fast! Its like meeting the kid who drew the winning ticket for free candy at the corner store, and then showing him he also has a coupon in the candy that gives him a discount for the rest of his life! Enjoy! :thumbsup:
 
I am going to try to piggy back on this post, because you guys seem to really know your stuff. I recently got a Harpers Ferry also, but mine was a kit. It came pretty much done and has been fun seeing it turn into a piece of art.
but know that I am finishing it up I have a few questions. First is about the barrel: in Pedersoli's pictures it always has it with a polished barrel, that doesn't really make since for a military piece. And if it is to be blued, or browned what about the foresight being brass does that make any difference in the browning process.
Having a tough time figuring out this darn computer to get a picture to post
 
Levi, military weapons for this time period were often brightly polished. No bluing or browning. It gave the non-coms something to be picky about. During the American Civil War many guns were furnished blued but the troops polished off the bluing so they could have a proper shiny gun. A brick pounded with a hammer into a red powder provided the medium for shining their weapons.

All of my smoothbore pistol barrels were left bright; with shooting and handling and cleaning and oiling, they are taking on that nice steel gray color.

Many Klatch
 
wwfeatherston said:
Finally decided to take the next step and brought a Pedersoli Harper's Ferry.

As soon as I can get all the permits and paperwork sorted, it's off to see if I can make a flintlock go bang!

Got some 4F, spare flints and a new powder flask. The only balls I could find were .562, so I will have to find some thick patches!

Does anyone know if this beast will shoot a minnie? Those I can get.

.562 is a size used in 58s. Might work better than you think. Minies will REALLY kick.

Dan
 
wwfeatherston
A nice heavy Minie' bullet might also break the stock on your pistol.

If I owned one I would try to find and shoot the roundballs they were made to shoot. :)
 
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