Pedersoli Kodiak from 1976

[DonG]

I have owned a .50 cal Pedersoli Kodiak for a long time and want to hunt deer with it this season. It functions perfectly but I'm struggling to get it regulated at 50 to 100 yards. It's on paper but the barrels cross at 50 yards by 4 to 5 inches. I use 70 grains of 2F powder in my .50 percussion and flintlock single barrel rifles to great success but not so much in the double Kodiak.
I'm looking for loads using primarily .50 cal round balls but, I have a bunch of PA Conical's I'd like to try. I'm thinking about 80 plus grains of 2F. Before heading back to the range I'd like to have some suggestions for loads and bullets.
The Kodiak's barrels are in great condition, but the rifling is shallow, not worn but not deep either. The right barrel is "tighter" than the left so, could that be part of the problem? It's not much tighter and the bore condition in both barrels is great.

Any advice is appreciated,

Best to all,
Don

 

[64Springer]

I could be talking out of my butt, but I believe double rifle barrels are regulated at the factory for a given distance plus or minus a couple of yards.

I don't think you can zero both barrels to hit at 50 yards and 100 yards.

What is the factory regulated zero for that double rifle?


PS: What I found online is that Kodiaks are regulated to hit at 100 yards. Some sites are saying 75 yards. Which means Kentucky windage would need to be employed at closer distances.

 

[DonG]

I could be talking out of my butt, but I believe double rifle barrels are regulated at the factory for a given distance plus or minus a couple of yards.

I don't think you can zero both barrels to hit at 50 yards and 100 yards.

What is the factory regulated zero for that double rifle?


PS: What I found online is that Kodiaks are regulated to hit at 100 yards. Some sites are saying 75 yards. Which means Kentucky windage would need to be employed at closer distances.

Thanks very much for your response. I think I should get back to the range and do more serious work than I've done to date. I'll find out where each barrel shoots best and go from there with load adjustment. Sights are not the best but will work inside 75 yards or so.

Thanks again,
Don

 

[Phil Coffins]

Another thing to consider is some states allow only single shot muzzle loaders in their primitive season. As an example in my state that double could be used in the regular rifle season but not during muzzle loading season.

 

[DonG]

Another thing to consider is some states allow only single shot muzzle loaders in their primitive season. As an example in my state that double could be used in the regular rifle season but not during muzzle loading season.

I'm in PA and use a .50 cal, Chuck Dixon made flintlock long rifle for the muzzleloader season. The early rifle season is when I would use the Kodiak.

 

[R Ellis]

Double rifles sometimes will need to be fired with different powder charges and or different bullets IE one with round ball and the other with conical. Also they are to be shot from the shoulder dot the bench. Mine has two sight blades which can help so maybe you can replace your rear sight with a newer one. The recoil from shooting from the shoulder will move the bullet impact right and left when each barrel is fired which does not happen the same as from the bench

 

[R Ellis]

Also I forgot to say 99% of the time one shot is all you need so use your sight adjusted to the most accurate barrel and don't sweat the other barrel to much it is basically just for backup if needed. If you don't put your game down on the first shot it will most likely be running so the second shot is a risky shot anyway

 

[Steve Wagner]

I could be talking out of my butt, but I believe double rifle barrels are regulated at the factory for a given distance plus or minus a couple of yards.

I don't think you can zero both barrels to hit at 50 yards and 100 yards.

What is the factory regulated zero for that double rifle?


PS: What I found online is that Kodiaks are regulated to hit at 100 yards. Some sites are saying 75 yards. Which means Kentucky windage would need to be employed at closer distances.

Just a few follow up questions: Are Kodiak barrels welded together or is it possible to shim the front end apart a bit to get both barrels on to a useful zero ? Competent gunsmith fix ? I don't know ML's anywhere close to you, but a 4-5 inch crossover already happening at 50 yards would seem to be extremely difficult to remedy with load experimentation. 8 to 10 inches at 100 yards plus group dispersion seems somewhat hopeless for the effort of carrying a double rifle. Personally, I would prefer both barrels shooting parallel to infinity over that amount of crossover. At most that would theoretically put his groupings only about 1-2 inches apart. As it stands, he will be carrying a useless 2nd barrel if this can't be addressed. No trolling here as I am sincerely interested in your thoughts on this. Those Kodiaks are not cheap and that problem would give me serious pause before ever buying a double like that. Thanks, SW

 

[64Springer]

I agree that a sub 50 yard cross over is a useless double rifle. Unless you're whacking lions, tigers and bears at 40 yards.

Part of it could be the load.

Part of it could be the ability of the shooter.

As for re-regulating it, a great gunsmith can do just about anything. I'm certain there are double rifle gunsmiths out there.

Lots-O-Money though.

 

[R Ellis]

Just a few follow up questions: Are Kodiak barrels welded together or is it possible to shim the front end apart a bit to get both barrels on to a useful zero ? Competent gunsmith fix ? I don't know ML's anywhere close to you, but a 4-5 inch crossover already happening at 50 yards would seem to be extremely difficult to remedy with load experimentation. 8 to 10 inches at 100 yards plus group dispersion seems somewhat hopeless for the effort of carrying a double rifle. Personally, I would prefer bothbarrels shooting parallel to infinity over that amount of crossover. At most that would theoretically put his groupings only about 1-2 inches apart. As it stands, he will be carrying a useless 2nd barrel if this can't be addressed. No trolling here as I am sincerely interested in your thoughts on this. Those Kodiaks are not cheap and that problem would give me serious pause before ever buying a double like that. Thanks, SW

All double s x s guns that I am aware of are always closer together at the muzzle than the breech so the bullet will always cross .You may find a o/u double that the barrels are parallel and will not cross but that wound be rare. and the barrels are soldered or brazed never welded. Also a 4 inch cross is only 2 inches for each barrel and it is not that hard to fix

 

[Steve Wagner]

Thanks for both of your responses. Hopefully helpful to the OP. After spending a bit more time with load work ups and different bullets and no success, I would seek out a gunsmith or sell. It would only be fair to inform a buyer of the issue though. With no guarantee that another such double did not have the same issue and a real desire to have a double, I would go the good gunsmith route. Unless the cost was more than another try w another rifle. I keep hearing great things about Bob Hoyt on this forum, so he would probably be where I would head for advice on this. If he doesn't do that work I'd guess he'd know who does. SW

 

[BS]

Do you have two rear flip up sights?

 

[alcessapiens]

mine is .58x.58 and I had to tinker about with loads a bit. These are regulated ( not to westley richards standards). With 60 gr and prb mine throws the left barrel to the right at 50m and the right barrel to the left. At 100m they have crossed but at 70m spot on. The complications are that , unlike a valmet 412 o/u double where the center of the bores is close and velocity is high, the s x s bp double has a fair distance between center of bores and low velocity. So, the recoil isn’t simply backwards and upwards it also skews to the firing side. The low velocity gives more time for movement and exaggerates the effect. Mine is spot on at 70 m, both groups printing into the same circle. You know what ti does at 70 gr and 50 yd. Keeping all other things equal, go 90 gr and see where it goes, keep experimenting until you get a circular group.
Things never to do: don’t sight one rear sight for each barrel. You’ll never have time in the field to flip one down and another up, that’s not what they’re meant for. the rear sicht is for close work and the front for farther shots ( i leave the front down and hold over if i need to.
Must do with a double: Do not (not ever… the path to hell is trodden by people who do this) sight a double from a rest or sandbag. it must be in your hands for the recoil to move the gun as it will in the field. Sit upright at the bench ( as if you are offhand) rest your elbows to steady the rifle. Otherwise the place you think your bullets will go is only remotely near where they will actually go. I’ve owned the kodiak for 25 years and its a nice rifle ( you can’t get a very light trigger but you can polish it crisp) . I have had several centerfire doubles and my first ( a neat little.303 brit with oddly long barrels) gave me fits until a guy with a gun room full of doubles clued me in. (could retire in great luxury with just the contents of one of his gun rooms, it’s good to be rich…well it looks good… i have no idea how it feels.) good luck!

 

[DonG]

Thank you for your detailed response. These are things that never occurred to me. I have always sighted from a rest at the bench, I'll be back at the range next week with a new perspective and more confidence that I will get this rifle sighted in and ready to hunt.
I plan to up the charge to 90grs. but starting at 80grs. (I had been at 70grs. which is my flintlock long rifle load).
My bullet choices are 490 RB and Pa Conicals.

I'll post again once I get it shooting.

Thanks again,
Don

 

[BS]

My Trail Guns Armory double 50 likes a .495 and levi patch. It loads hard, but shoots well.

I made lighter trigger springs, now I have nice triggers.

I cock and shoot the left barrel first. The longer rear trigger pulls easier.

This leaves the right side to cock and shoot if needed.

Easier the reach and cock the right side when in a hurry!

Sighted in for the left side and learn the "windage" needed for the right barrel.

 

[FishDFly]

Do a search, lots of discussion on the rifles.

 

[BillinOregon]

Alces makes some good comments. Doubles regulate at the center of a hypothetical X and you change the point of convergence by altering the powder charge and or the weight of the bullet which alters not just velocity but the amount of recoil away from the sight setting. E.G., upon firing the left barrel moves upward at a diagonal toward the left from the sight setting and the opposite with the right. The best explanation of this that I ahve seen is in Graeme Wright's book, "Shooting the British Double Rifle." Perhaps your local library system has a copy.

 

[NorthFork]

I could be talking out of my butt, but I believe double rifle barrels are regulated at the factory for a given distance plus or minus a couple of yards.

I don't think you can zero both barrels to hit at 50 yards and 100 yards.

What is the factory regulated zero for that double rifle?


PS: What I found online is that Kodiaks are regulated to hit at 100 yards. Some sites are saying 75 yards. Which means Kentucky windage would need to be employed at closer distances.

He is correct. ALL double barrels are SUPPOSED to be regulated in windage and elevation at a specified distance. Whether over/under or SxS. Rifles are regulated at a further distance than shotguns. If the right barrel is hitting to the right at whatever distance, then the regulated distance is farther than what you are shooting at. Same for the left barrel, if it is still hitting to the left, then the regulated distance is further out. USUALLY shotguns are regulated for 30-45 yards and rifles are regulated for 75-100 yards, USUALLY!

 

[NorthFork]

I will add that @DonG , you do not have a cheaply made rifle. It may not be the best money can buy, BUT Pedersoli usually makes decent stuff. It may take some time to figure out. There is nothing wrong with this hypothetical situation, the right barrel hits 4" right of the mark at 50 yards, the deer is at 50 yards give or take, aim roughly 4" left of the desired mark. Still a dead deer.

 

[cynthialee]

a double barrel rifle will always need some amount of Kentucky windage on one of the barrels
they do their best to regulate them to a set distance but....yeah

Spend more range time and figure out that windage and you will be golden, or just load 1 barrel during the hunt, probably all you will need anyways.