Pedersoli problems

[Springerpanhead]

Learning the hard way as usual. Just finished building a 32 cal Kentucky flinter from a Pedersoli kit. Everything went smoothly till I tried to operate the lock. The trigger pull buried my scale so I still don‘t know what it was besides ridiculous. Disassembled the lock and polished the full cock position on the drum. Still very heavy but doable. At the range the trigger got lighter and lighter till it wouldn’t stay in full cock at all. Disassembly showed a burr on the sear where it hits the fly. The fact that I could peen the burr back in place should have told me something. Checking the drum, the edge had also begun to round. I assumed improper heat treat. Out to the machine shop. Dark cherry and oil quench. Reassembly 6 or 7 cycles, same problems. Back out to the shop Bright cherry, oil quench. Repeat problems. Ok here goes. Bright cherry, saturated brine quench. No improvement. Conclusion, the cheap sobs are cement case hadening mild steel to make their lock parts. Disgusting. Calling Chambers today to see if he . has a replacement lock

 

[Britsmoothy]

That is very bad.
It does though sound like you could of added your own carbon to the parts, after all you had heated them up. Either way, I hope you get it sorted. In sure it will please you then.

 

[JHB]

Brownells carries case hardening compound.

https://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=case+hardning+compound&ksubmit=y

 

[Springerpanhead]

While it may be a common practice in industry, I am not a great fan of case hardening on wearing parts where pressure is focused on an edge or point. In this case I am going to try and take the easy way out and replace the whole lock with a higher quality unit from one of the reputable lock makers. Failing that, it’s out to the machine shop to make a sear and a drum out of whatever tool steel I happen to have on hand whose hardening characteristics I have on reference. PITA yes, but I will feel much more confident carrying a rifle that I know won’t go bang by itself because the case hardening has worn through at a critical point.

 

[Zonie]

If the lock was made by a reputable company, the sear and tumbler should be made out of tool steel. If it is, it can be hardened to the needed hardness by heating it to a bright orange/yellow color and then quenching it in warm motor oil.
After doing this, the steel should be too hard for a file to leave a mark on. If it passes the file test, the parts should be tempered at 300-350 degrees F for a half hour or so.

The problem with doing this is, the notches in the tumbler are probably damaged and if the sear was left soft, it's probably damaged too.

The problem with the home done case hardening powders is, the resulting case is very thin. We're talking about maybe a few tenths of a thousandth of an inch. ( .0002- .0004)

All in all, buying a new lock is probably the best solution. After fitting it into the lock mortise, use the existing holes thru the stock as guides for the tap drill for the threads by drilling the lock plate from the other side of the stock. Don't forget to use a "Thread Cutting Oil" to lubricate the tap. Regular oil won't do the job and using it to thread holes usually ends up breaking the tap.

 

[bud in pa]

Had the same problem with my 50 cal. flint Kentucky. Mine is probably 40 years old, they changed the design of the lock according to the man at Flintlocks Etc. the importer. This was years ago. I welder up my tumbler and recut the half cock notch, and used Casenit to reharden it. After doing this the second time it broke again, so I put the rifle up. I recently found a lock whose overall dimensions are close enough that I am opening up the lock mortice to make it fit.

 

[Springerpanhead]

Thanks for the info on hardening. Bright orange seems awful hot for small parts in air. Unfortunately when I retired two of the pieces of equipment I sold were my controlled atmosphere heat treating oven and my Rockwell tester. So I will try to get a couple of replacement parts on hand just in case I overcook the ones I have while attempting to harden them. It appears that no one makes a drop in replacement for this lock. Have to take some measurements to see what I can make fit. This rifle is strictly a shooter so if the installation comes out a little hinky I’m not particula worried about it. Another option I have considered is welding up the sear and full cock position with Stellite which I still have about 10 lbs. of left over from the days of building race motors when Stellite valves and seats weren’ commercially available.. Beginning to overthink this damn thing when I should be focused on getting a good quality lock and making it fit.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Yikes, sorry to hear that.

Jim Kibler offers a .32 kit in his Southern Mountain Rifle kit. American made CNC precision lock using superb steel and fully tuned and ready from the factory, proper architecture with wood chosen by a master, perfectly fitting parts requiring very minimal woodworking, and a top quality properly swamped American made barrel. This can all be had for just a bit more than the Pedersoli kit.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thanks for the info on hardening. Bright orange seems awful hot for small parts in air. Unfortunately when I retired two of the pieces of equipment I sold were my controlled atmosphere heat treating oven and my Rockwell tester. So I will try to get a couple of replacement parts on hand just in case I overcook the ones I have while attempting to harden them. It appears that no one makes a drop in replacement for this lock. Have to take some measurements to see what I can make fit. This rifle is strictly a shooter so if the installation comes out a little hinky I’m not particula worried about it. Another option I have considered is welding up the sear and full cock position with Stellite which I still have about 10 lbs. of left over from the days of building race motors when Stellite valves and seats weren’ commercially available.. Beginning to overthink this damn thing when I should be focused on getting a good quality lock and making it fit.

Stelite is awesome steel. Tigged a lot of tool parts with stelite. Filing it would be interesting though.

 

[JHB]

McMaster-Carr has 01 tool steel if you have the skills to reproduce the lock parts. The steel is tough enough to test the new parts in the soft state and hold up for a few test fires before heat treat. Look up the heat treat specks and do it with a torch. The color the steel turns will correspond to a temperature that is needed before quenching and then polish on sand paper to remove the black color. With the parts in the silver stare reheat to about straw or dark blue what ever the specks call out to temper and let air cool. The color temperature comparison chart can be found on the net.

 

[Springerpanhead]

McMaster-Carr has 01 tool steel if you have the skills to reproduce the lock parts. The steel is tough enough to test the new parts in the soft state and hold up for a few test fires before heat treat. Look up the heat treat specks and do it with a torch. The color the steel turns will correspond to a temperature that is needed before quenching and then polish on sand paper to remove the black color. With the parts in the silver stare reheat to about straw or dark blue what ever the specks call out to temper and let air cool. The color temperature comparison chart can be found on the net.

Might have to go that route, annoying that I have to put in that much work for what should have been good in the first place but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I at least have the knowledg, skill, and equipment to deal with it. Wouldn’t want to stick someone else with the problem.w

Yikes, sorry to hear that.

Jim Kibler offers a .32 kit in his Southern Mountain Rifle kit. American made CNC precision lock using superb steel and fully tuned and ready from the factory, proper architecture with wood chosen by a master, perfectly fitting parts requiring very minimal woodworking, and a top quality properly swamped American made barrel. This can all be had for just a bit more than the Pedersoli kit.

Wish I knew that before I bought that Pedersoli I’ve had several of their guns over the years and only one had a problem. I didn’t find this forum till quite a while after the kit had been ordered. Thinking I might sell my cowboy action guns (COVID and ammunition shortage put an end to that) and buy that Kibbler kit you suggested and keep the Ped as a guest gun

 

[Nameless Hunter]

That is some sad news about Pedersoli build quality.

 

[JHB]

I have a Pedersoli kit in 50 may have to take my own advice. About 100 rounds so far so good have to wait and see.

 

[user 36911]

You'd think you'd hear about that problem from all the owners of that model. Why didn't you contact Pedersoli?

Does Pedersoli make their own locks?

 

[vintovka]

How old is the lock? Hearing Quality control issues all over due to current chaos. Massive steel price hikes of late aren't helping and Italy is hit hard.

 

[Springerpanhead]

You'd think you'd hear about that problem from all the owners of that model. Why didn't you contact Pedersoli?

Does Pedersoli make their own locks?

Dont know who makes their locks. I’m seldom one to contact a manufacturer about a problem that I can resolve myself in a fraction of the time it takes to go through a whole bunch of back and forths on the issue. Listening to answering machines and waiting for call backs. Usually one can make some improvement to the original mass produced item that will provide better function and or durability for the future. Unless it’s a real expensive item experience has shown me trying to get satisfaction out of a manufacturer ain’t worth the time or the hassle. This is especially true now with shipping and delivery times so out of wack.

 

[Springerpanhead]

How old is the lock? Hearing Quality control issues all over due to current chaos. Massive steel price hikes of late aren't helping and Italy is hit hard.

Don’t know when the lock was manufactured. Got the kit from DGW about 6 weeks ago.

I have a Pedersoli kit in 50 may have to take my own advice. About 100 rounds so far so good have to wait and see.

As it turns out I found a Pedersoli parts dealer named Beauchamp in MA. who had a complete lock In stock. No BS with guy, same day shipping. Think I’m going to try the Stelite fix on the original and if I screw it up beyond salvation don’t care cuz he also has the individual parts. One way or another I will have a spare lock. I’ve heard that the Ped locks have been a bit of a crap shoot of late. Maybe I’ll get lucky with the new one.

 

[vintovka]

Italy has been having problems going back to before fauxvid. That may mean quality was affected. That said the same quality issues may have affected any replacement parts. Hope not. Hope not, but supports your wise decision. If more reports come in re this and other parts/guns it sure suggests a relationship between production dates and future values.

 

[vintovka]

Italy has been having problems going back to before fauxvid. That may mean quality was affected. That said the same quality issues may have affected any replacement parts. Hope not, but supports your wise decision. If more reports come in re this and other parts/guns it sure suggests a relationship between production dates and future values.

 

[Springerpanhead]

Stelite is awesome steel. Tigged a lot of tool parts with stelite. Filing it would be interesting though.

I have over the years built a couple of jigs that hold the Dreaded Dremel securely clamped in a fixture on a pair of linear bearings sliding on precision ground rails. When coupled with a proper holding fixture for the part to be worked on, it turns the Dreaded Dremel into a miniature precision surface grinder. Both of those were built for gunsmiths who unfortunately are no longer with us, and I have no idea what happened to their tools. As all shoemakers kids go barefoot, I never built one for myself