Pedersoli Rocky Mt Hawken Vs Browning Mt Rifle

[smokymountainmike]

I have a Pedersoli Rocky Mt Hawken .54 caliber rifle that I've had for years. I have heard a lot of talk about the Browning Mt rifle being a great rifle but I've never put my hands on one. How does the Browning stack up as far as quality and authenticity compared to the Rocky Mt Hawken?

 

[jdkerstetter]

Browning hasn't produced that gun in years. They were, perhaps, the best production ML built.

They pop up on the used market from time to time and are highly sought after and usually go for a premium.

I don't feel it would be fair of me to compare your gun to the Browning. Only you can do that. Check the on-line auction sites, they may have some listed.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Dphar]

I have a Pedersoli Rocky Mt Hawken .54 caliber rifle that I've had for years. I have heard a lot of talk about the Browning Mt rifle being a great rifle but I've never put my hands on one. How does the Browning stack up as far as quality and authenticity compared to the Rocky Mt Hawken?

I would not waste the funds. If you want a different rifle save for something more traditional.
Having had one of them apart I can't see where they are any better than any of the mass produced rifles. All have shortcuts designed to allow them to sell cheap.
Dan

 

[smokymountainmike]

Thanks for the insight. I have been keeping an eye out for one. Hope to run across one that is priced right one day.

 

[smokymountainmike]

I really like my Pedersoli it is a well made rifle that has served me well. I've killed a lot of deer with it. I would like to have a custom built Hawken but the price is out of my reach for now. Thanks Dan

 

[jdkerstetter]

Well, you gotta give it to Dan, he's right....the Browning is no custom gun....but then the asking price on one is less than half of a custom build too. If you build your own guns you don't have to worry about such things.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[smokymountainmike]

JD maybe you or Dan can help me settle something between me and my huntin buddy. The barrel wedges on my Pedersoli are captured I guess to prevent losing them. Were they also captured on an original Hawken. I say they were my pard says they weren't.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Some Hawken rifles did use captured keys or wedges. Early Hawken rifles did not. I don't know that it was a "rule" on the later guns, but some did.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Dphar]

I really like my Pedersoli it is a well made rifle that has served me well. I've killed a lot of deer with it. I would like to have a custom built Hawken but the price is out of my reach for now. Thanks Dan

If you continue to buy the factory mades it will remain so. If you have one of them that works well you really don't need another.
If the Browning or any of them for that matter has been shot with chlorate powders it may not even be safe to shoot.
I know a VERY knowledgeable custom maker who built percussion for a customer. The customer only shot a limited amount of chlorate powder in it but it ate a crawdad hole in the patent breech until it leaked gas at the juncture of the breech and the barrel.
There are many, many horror stories related to this stuff. So a used percussion ML is immediately suspect unless the buy KNOWS its history.
This is a Browning breech I pulled for a guy a few years ago. It was shot with black but the ever present in factory mades fouling trap at the breech resulted in the breech looking like this.
It cleaned up OK but had it been used with the chlorate powder the gun would likely have been junk.

Properly breeched there would be no fouling contacting the threads. But this takes too much time for the price the mass market things sell for. So its one of the many shortcuts.

Above is a "cupped" breech for a 58 caliber.
Its fully fit and ready for the tang to be machined. The dark rectangles at the edge of the "cup" are the remains of Magic Marker used as a witness to assure fit. The face of the breech that has no black color has had it rubbed off by contact with the inner shoulder in the barrel.

This is one fit to a 50 cal smoothbore barrel using a blue marker.

These don't leak gas/fouling into the threads.
The factory mades usually have .030-.100" gap since they have no time for fitting. Charging anything like reasonable shop charges means that fitting a breechplug will cost 50-100 bucks in most cases. This makes a 200 barrel cost 250-300.
Poorly fitted breeches may look like this when removed.

Yeah, thats fouling packed into a rebate in front of the threads. This is a sloppy breech job done by a "custom" barrel maker who sells barrels with plugs installed. It traps fouling and oil and can cause numerous problems. From misfire to nasty rot at the breech. Good place for it huh?
So forgive me if I disagree when people me that the factory mades are just as good as a properly assembled custom because they shoot so well....

Dan

 

[smokymountainmike]

Dan thanks for the heads up. I'm not familiar with the term chlorate powder. What powder brands should I stay away from? The only powder that I've ever used is Goex and then I do a thorough clean up after shooting. But from what I gather regardless how good you clean the weapon if the breech isn't properly fitted fouling will get into the threads and eventually render the weapon unsafe to shoot.

 

[Dphar]

Dan thanks for the heads up. I'm not familiar with the term chlorate powder. What powder brands should I stay away from? The only powder that I've ever used is Goex and then I do a thorough clean up after shooting. But from what I gather regardless how good you clean the weapon if the breech isn't properly fitted fouling will get into the threads and eventually render the weapon unsafe to shoot.

A major component of Pyrodex is Potassium Perclorate. Its a cousin to the stuff that rotted all those M1 and 1903 barrels before the military went to non-corrosive priming. These had a tiny amount of Potassium Chlorate. The active ingredient is both is the same.
Chlorate fouling is far more aggressive than BP fouling and much harder to stop once its started.
T7 has no chlorate but its also too "hot" for sidelock guns IMO being intended for inlines.
The various other "substitute powders" are sugar based and while non-corrosive have a different set of problems that make them less desirable than black from a consistency standpoint.

Dan

 

[smokymountainmike]

Dan I have never used Pyrodex in the guns I own now. I tried it when it first came out and I didn't like it because it didn't ignite as well as Goex. I appreciate the advice concerning Pyrodex use.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have found a simple "fix" to the gap is to turn a brass bushing/spacer that will fill the gap.. :idunno:

 

[oldarcher]

I have thought about a brass or copper washer between the back of the plug and the barrel, but never in the barrel. Indexing and measuring the length of the plug and the threads for the plug in the barrel is sometimes tedious, especially when trying to index to a specific flat. I can't see a problem with a brass washer in the rear space, but NEVER in the barrel. The threads of the plug should snug to the inside of the barrel so gas will not escape to the rear of a tight fitting plug.....I guess that I have always thought that if I am going to take the time to measure and properly seat the plug, why do the same with a washer. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Dphar]

I have found a simple "fix" to the gap is to turn a brass bushing/spacer that will fill the gap.. :idunno:

Its a fix for people that like to take shortcuts.
Or don't know any better.
Once the proper way to breech a barrel is known there is no reason for it.
I did this on a rifle I made when I was about 18, I think I used nickle silver.
Think I was too lazy to do it right or in too much of a hurry to shoot the thing, I was learning gun building mostly from Muzzle Blasts articles in 1966-69.
Dan

 

[Fox.45]

Hi, just thought i'd tell what I do with my T/C Hawken .50 cal. I have the plug and lock for both flint and percussion, and I change when the deer season changes here, When I do, I put anti-seize on the threads and never have a build up of fouling.Maybe my plug to barrel fit is good and tight ,I never looked ,but I will now.This site and the people on could give classes on the art of black powder shooting and all that goes with it.Matter of fact, comming here is like going to class lol.I have learned a lot on here and I have been shooting BP since the price of my Hawkin kit cost me 75.00 dealers price.. long time ago.
OBTW I use pyrodex for percussion and 3fff BP for the flint.
What do you think ? Fox.45 :thumbsup: