Pedersoli Scout Range Help

[Leadriver]

Hey guys got the Scout today for its first shooting session. I am having trouble blowing holes in patches and shredding them. I first used 1/8 wool wads with .10 tight woven cotton patch lubed with precision lube 2000 plus. That gave me a 5 shot group right at 1” at 50 yards with 25 grains of 2F. Patches didn’t look as bad when using wads. Turns out after that my dad had an idea to test the wool to see if it was real wool. Well it light right up and burned like nylon, even though it was advertised as 100% wool felt. After cleaning all the black tar out of my barrel and with using no wad I can’t get a decent group. They all stay in around a 3” group. I am swapping with a spit patch between each shot. I was running from 15 to 40 grains.
I have .015 patches coming but I don’t know if that will solve the problem. May need to order Dura felt and make new wads.

 

[flntlokr]

You shouldn't have to use wads; the patch is all you need. I use 100% cotton 'duck' about .012 thickness. Wash it a couple of times to get the sizing out. I lube with water with a bit of detergent added. Use wet patches; let them soak overnight in the lube solution (I put mine in pill bottles) for use, remove them from the soak a few at a time, and squeeze all the water you can out of them just before loading. Your rifling may be really sharp, and might need some 'shooting in' so it doesn't cut patches. Some folks scrub the barrels with abrasives to do that, but I never have, so I'll let the expeerienced ones advise you. Have fun! It will resolve.

 

[Leadriver]

Does Walmart happen to have any material I could try? I have patches coming but if o could pick up something local I could try in the mean time. I already ordered some felt to try, in case a heavier patch doesn’t work. A .10 patch is already getting snug, .015 might be too much.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You could use the pillow or mattress ticking with the blue or red stripes. That fabric could be 100% cotton and maybe 0.015" thick. You still need to wash the sizing out before use.

 

[deermanok]

Walmart does sell fabric. You'd have to check to see if they sell 100% cotton. A Joann's fabric shop would probably be a better choice.
You could also try using a double patch with your load. Idaho Lewis uses it in his round ball shooting. Patches don't get destroyed.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have to admit that my favorite patching material is the #40 drill cloth in the utility fabric section of Jo-Ann's Fabrics.

 

[bang]

Does Walmart happen to have any material I could try? I have patches coming but if o could pick up something local I could try in the mean time. I already ordered some felt to try, in case a heavier patch doesn’t work. A .10 patch is already getting snug, .015 might be too much.

I've bought .010 and .018 ticking at WM

 

[Leadriver]

My local Walmart doesn’t show anything like ticking available for online.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Leadriver, go to Jo-Ann's Fabrics. Bring your micrometer or Vernier calipers to measure pillow ticking, mattress ticking, #40 drill cloth, denim, and various weights of canvas. Much better selection and quality than Walmart.

 

[Leadriver]

What about lube? Could that make such a difference?

 

[Leadriver]

I mean it did appear to shoot better with a wad. Seemed to burn cleaner too, I mean 5 shots into an inch at 50 yards can’t be just luck. Of course I don’t have any luck so who knows lol

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Leadriver, once one develops the skills, luck seems to follow.

Lubricant does play a part in accuracy. This is part of load development to match up the proper powder charge with patch thickness, ball diameter and patch lubricant. If the patch thickness is too thin, there is tearing due to gas cutting and an over powder wad can minimize the gas cutting.

I tend to emphasize finding out the measurements of the land to land diameter and the bore diameter. I find the difference between the land to land diameter and the ball diameter. One half of that difference plus the groove diameter gives you a suggestion for patch thickness with a bit of material compression. For my 45 caliber rifle, I use a 0.445" ball. The land to land diameter is 0.452. The groove depth is 0.010. I need room for a patch to compress to 0.0135". My patching material from Jo-Ann's is #40 cotton drill cloth of 0.018" that compresses with mild compression to 0.015". The soft lead ball will engrave on the patch material as the patch material is compressed into the ball. With the lubricant to slow down the gas cutting effects of firing a charge of black powder, I get good accuracy. With some rifles, the first shot will have a different impact than the rest of the shots in the group. I use a lubricant of 1 part of water soluble (emulsifying) oil and 7 parts of water. I have also use 1 part of WSO and 4 parts of water and a lot of other mixes work as well. What is important is to have some form of lubricant. Nothing will stop the gases from a firing charge of powder, but patch lubricants can minimize the gas cutting.

 

[Leadriver]

@Leadriver, once one develops the skills, luck seems to follow.

Lubricant does play a part in accuracy. This is part of load development to match up the proper powder charge with patch thickness, ball diameter and patch lubricant. If the patch thickness is too thin, there is tearing due to gas cutting and an over powder wad can minimize the gas cutting.

I tend to emphasize finding out the measurements of the land to land diameter and the bore diameter. I find the difference between the land to land diameter and the ball diameter. One half of that difference plus the groove diameter gives you a suggestion for patch thickness with a bit of material compression. For my 45 caliber rifle, I use a 0.445" ball. The land to land diameter is 0.452. The groove depth is 0.010. I need room for a patch to compress to 0.0135". My patching material from Jo-Ann's is #40 cotton drill cloth of 0.018" that compresses with mild compression to 0.015". The soft lead ball will engrave on the patch material as the patch material is compressed into the ball. With the lubricant to slow down the gas cutting effects of firing a charge of black powder, I get good accuracy. With some rifles, the first shot will have a different impact than the rest of the shots in the group. I use a lubricant of 1 part of water soluble (emulsifying) oil and 7 parts of water. I have also use 1 part of WSO and 4 parts of water and a lot of other mixes work as well. What is important is to have some form of lubricant. Nothing will stop the gases from a firing charge of powder, but patch lubricants can minimize the gas cutting.

I use ticking in my 50 cal Lyman Great Plains with very good accuracy. I just don’t wanna have to hammer down a tight ball in a .32. I am skidding about getting too tigh as I feel the ball may deform getting started in the barrel.

 

[Grenadier1758]

That too is an aspect of load development. It is quite alright to use a smaller diameter ball and thicker patch with greater moisture used to lubricate the patch to get a load that one doesn't have to hammer down the barrel. I use a jag with a concave tip that conforms to the ball diameter and doesn't deform the ball as I load a tight ball and patch.

I did this test to compare using a 0.535" ball and 0.018" patch with a group shot using a 0.520" ball and 0.010" patch. I used the same powder charge and patch lubricant. You may be surprised with the on target accuracy of an easy to load combination.

On one of my trips of the range I decided to experiment with undersized balls and thin patches in my 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle. I shot comparison targets. I would take one shot with my 0.535 ball and 0.017" cotton drill cloth and the next shot was with a 0.520" ball and 0.010" patching. I wanted to compare a target load with an out of the pouch load for trail walks. I was surprised by the results.

The loading was very easy. The patches were shredded but a sort of reasonable group.

View attachment 100777

The shots with the 0.535" ball came up with a slightly smaller group and intact patches.

View attachment 100778

The point of impact was very close for both ball and patch combinations. I did try to load the 0.520 ball with the 0.017 cotton drill, but that load could not be easily thumb started.

The conclusion from this effort was that the 0.520 ball and thin patch combination would be good for steel targets where loading from the pouch was required.

 

[stikshooter]

I mean it did appear to shoot better with a wad. Seemed to burn cleaner too, I mean 5 shots into an inch at 50 yards can’t be just luck. Of course I don’t have any luck so who knows lol

The wad absolutely helps ,think of it as insurance perhaps a poor choice of patch /the wrong thickness or in the case of pre lubed it has got old destroyed the integrity of said patch a felt wad takes up the slack .Prove it to your self ,seein is believing ! Shoot the patched ball and then find the patch and set in on the bench , then take a dura felt wad dry and place over powder insert the same ball with the same patch material . If the patch is weak or tore up/shot thru or burned that is a lousy group however the same patch with the wad under looks like you could reuse it it will be a nice group . The patch seals and prevents gas blowby/cutting but patch failure causes exactly what you experienced . If you have been shooting and experienced you probably selected the proper patch and lube and the right amount of powder for that ball then you have no need for the wad , (BUT) screw up any of those variables you definitely could use the help ! And just a little bonus if your patch fails so does your ball lose speed ,a chrono will prove that also and the wad increases FPS aside from nice patches and groups

 

[Leadriver]

My goal is to have a reasonably easy to load combination for hunting without being overly tight, but also achieve the accuracy I’m looking for. A wad may indeed leave me that cushion so I can have both. Pedersoli reccomends a .315 ball with .010 patch and 25gr charge. Seems to be about right if I can get the patch a touch thicker. I did run my wad cutter to get a .345 wad. Sound about right?